Author Topic: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched  (Read 44398 times)

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #330 on: January 15, 2025, 02:31:19 PM »
Nusselt, but yes.

Thanks for the correction. Worth pointing people in the right direction. I've lost my reading glasses and take amitriptyline for osteoarthritis of the neck. I get foggy at this time of night. Well that's my excuse. :) If I stir in the night I'm almost delirious. I was awakened at 2 a.m. the other night, and believed there was a male lion in my room.

Talking of Apollo 13. I never understood the accident was staged as a distraction from Vietnam claim (Ralph Rene). Firstly, Western society was progressing in an increasingly liberal manner by the late 60s and early 70s, and a few astronauts going to the moon was journalistic corn seed in terms of Vietnam and the powerful social movements of the time. In any case, how would a news story with a short half life take Vietnam off the front page for any length of time? Further, why not just explode the Saturn V on the launch pad and end the program there. They had 'hoaxed' the landings twice? Why keep playing it out and risk getting found out? I'm also curious to how much artistic licence Apollo 13 (film) used. Were the switches really dripping with water?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2025, 02:33:27 PM by Luke Pemberton »
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Offline Peter B

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #331 on: January 15, 2025, 03:23:27 PM »
...Similarly, the LM ascent stage was always slightly off balance. If you watch the 16 mm footage, the LM wallowed constantly in one direction and had to be corrected. This was deemed acceptable since the corrective control action wasn't very significant. But it's one of those things that could have been corrected by a design change, but wasn't. The existing design was "good enough." Hence being successful as an engineer means (among other things) realizing when Better is the enemy of Good, and emotionally letting go of the ghosts in existing designs. Every successful design will still harbor "We never fixed that" issues. And every engineer accumulates a list of, "If we had it to do over again..."

The Murray and Cox book "Apollo The Race to the Moon" describes Joe Shea constantly emphasising that point, mentioning the use of Passive Thermal Control to manage the effect of extreme low temperatures on the heat shield material, and the lack of a fuel gauge for the SPS engine.

But presumably this sort of mindset is going to be fairly common in a wide range of workplaces?

Over the years I worked in many places where people could see better ways of doing things, but we were told to keep doing things the way they were because "the system works well enough", and "we don't have the money to fix that". Then, if the money became available, perhaps some random selection of those improvements might be actually programmed (can you sense my cynical nostalgia?).
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #332 on: January 15, 2025, 03:36:48 PM »
Were the switches really dripping with water?
I can't find any definite testimony one way or another, but it's likely that there was notable condensation.

You're probably familiar with the encapsulation of the AGC components, but in fact all the internal components of the CM were internally encapsulated against moisture. Not full potting, but the wired connections were dipped in or painted with sealants to prevent any water-related short circuits.
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Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #333 on: January 15, 2025, 04:20:45 PM »
Sure. And as soon as you figure out what "it" is you'll be going places.

For a given point on a surface...

Proving I've got used to using social media more than bulletin boards, I keep looking for the 'like' button around here! Thanks for the illustration. I knew it was complex but I'm very much in the 'well I know the hoax believers are wrong but blowed if I can tell them how to be right' stage, and comfortable there. :)

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Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #334 on: January 15, 2025, 04:24:59 PM »
... some might argue we shouldn't let him build buildings either!   ;D
Indeed, the neighbors of the Disney Concert Hall can tell you a thing or two about heat loads from reflective surfaces.

As can a number of people who have parked their cars in Eastcheap, a street in London, on particularly sunny days at certain times of year. The infamous 'walkie-talkie' tower has a distressing tendency to melt car parts.....
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #335 on: January 15, 2025, 04:33:53 PM »
I'm also curious to how much artistic licence Apollo 13 (film) used.

Quite a bit, usually in the service of making a story that played out over several days into a gripping 2-hour movie and keeping the cast of characters manageable. We only see one flight control team, for instance, without even a mention of the others. Ken Mattingly was not the only one in the simulator working on power up procedures. I think it's unfortunate that it plays with the 'let's change the character of the dead guy for dramatic purposes' trope by making much more out of Swigert's last-minute switch into the CMP seat, with far more uncertainty about him from his crewmates and ground controllers than was ever the case in reality.

Ironically, the one moment in the movie that got most flak for excessive dramatic license, when Marilyn drops her wedding ring down the shower drain just before launch, has been confirmed by the Lovells as actually happening! (The ring was recovered from the trap.)
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain