Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched

[najak]

Then photoshop one. Photoshop a RAW file, without trace. Let's see it.  Show us the Apollo 11 and 12 sites without the hardware on.

Adding something is easier than removal.  For addition, we KNOW what we want to add (from a Lander model)..  These new pixels overwrite the others.  And for lower resolution images, this is an easy task - Digital Graphic Arts 101, taught at a Community College.

ISRO's images of Apollo 11 and 12 are not the first high resolution images of the Apollo sites, they are the highest resolution of two sites. If all that's required for you to accept their validity is publicity, then I guess the Korean and LRO images of the Apollo sites are absolutely genuine.

Here I am comparing all 3 images (India ISRO, NASA LRO, Korea KARI):


India is by far the highest resolution, and only decent Hi-Rez from a so-called Independent Nation (India).  More than double the resolution of prior images... yet no mentions on either's site...  Highest resolution and from "another nation" -- isn't that a huge deal?  Nope, didn't make the cut even for the ISRO galleries.

KARI appears to host one video that showcases "traces of Apollo sites" (weak claim, made on very very low resolution).  Are you calling a "weak claim" (i.e. "Traces" of Apollo) of one video with 621 views "Publicity"?   They have 34 videos here, and only 1 shows "Traces" with very low res images with nothing to see.

==
NASA's LRO images seem to have been removed from Goddard's site (service is now down)... leaving behind only the presentation of Ariz State Univ... who are not NASA employees.

Here's a link that used to show Apollo imagery from Goddard:
https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/31052/

[onebigmonkey]

Then you should have no problem creating the image.

Get the raw data, insert hardware in a way that os absolutely undetectable. Do it over and over, consistently, so that the hardware is always in the right place, correctly lit, and so that every rock and small crater is also correct.

Korea have imaged most of the Apollo sites. Their data matches everyone else's. They first announced Apollo 11& 17 imagery on Twitter, and then in published papers. They, like every other space agency, don't have to conform to your standards of how to do business, and they, like other space agencies, did not spend billions to photograph something just to appease people like you.

There is a good reason why Arizona State Uni host LRO images. See if you can work it out.

[onebigmonkey]

Here is the flag before it is moved:...

THANKS!  I found the flag motion at 5:22:38.  It moves the horizontal pole a LOT.
https://youtu.be/LK97hd3U4b8?t=19355

How does your footage align in time-line to the footage I was showing here, where there appears to be a draft TOWARDS the LM?
https://youtu.be/HpXQBYohV9Q?t=697

[/quote]

Watch the footage. Work it out.

[onebigmonkey]

I read a really good summary about this from "Gonetoplaid" talking about Deconvolving and the sheer complexities of introducing changes into streamed data. It basically places Arizona State Uni into collaborators. Where does this mad anti-logic end? We're already multiple generations into NASA turnover staff, other space agencies etc.

My own theory about these imagery edits, could be the following:

1. They edited the final non-streamed data.   Which would mean if they were to RE-PROCESS the original stream, it would NOT included these graphics... showing that they are MISSING.

OR

2. They modified the streamed data itself (not in real-time) but after it was done being received.   Which might mean they were using the research done by ASU to build a software tool that reverse generates the streamed data, from the modified output imagery.

So if #2 is not possible... then I would be stuck with #1 -- which means it could be uncovered by simply re-processing the streamed data.  Which might be why neither organization is directly Proclaiming "we saw Apollo!" -- despite the huge significance of this supposed imagery.   Because if they "open the door" by proclaiming it, they might be asked -- "Can you please reprocess the data stream to validate it?"... which they may simply not want to do... as it would expose the "security breach, of which they are currently officially unaware".

The gig would be up.

Or we could use Presidential executive order (or some shit) to Open up the "Apollo Capsule" recovered from Russian waters the day after Apollo 13 launch .... where the serial # evidence inside would reveal this to be the Apollo 13 capsule....   but NOPE, they sealed it up, never to be opened until 2070...  I'd like to see that Serial#.... it could reveal EVERYTHING.  So why are we respecting the 1970 decision to keep this sealed?  What are they hiding?

I suggest you watch Phase52012's many youtube videos covering the boilerplate CM capsule. It explains it in great detail.

[najak]

Watch the footage. Work it out.

It seems like I did analyze your footage - these are entirely different segments in time, where I think yours must come later.  Since it's your footage, maybe you can tell us the mission Time stamp for when it begins.

The famous footage I've referenced shows the flag pushed ONTO the screen, as we can see the "slant" at the top that demonstrates the flag is under stress (being pushed, not "at rest").

These 4 instances of the flag being push TOWARDS the LM, are IMPOSSIBLE... yet they happen.

I do not understand your thinking in how your separate video clip explains the IMPOSSIBLE that occurs in the clip I am referencing. ()

[najak]

I suggest you watch Phase52012's many youtube videos covering the boilerplate CM capsule. It explains it in great detail.

Watched this 7 minute clip, looks like interesting stuff.
https://youtu.be/L3tH7zhFDF4

Was there something specific you had in mind that you'd like me to glean from this video? (or another related one)

[onebigmonkey]

I suggest you watch Phase52012's many youtube videos covering the boilerplate CM capsule. It explains it in great detail.

Watched this 7 minute clip, looks like interesting stuff.
https://youtu.be/L3tH7zhFDF4

Was there something specific you had in mind that you'd like me to glean from this video? (or another related one)

Facts, knowledge, understanding. That kind of thing.

[onebigmonkey]

Watch the footage. Work it out.

It seems like I did analyze your footage - these are entirely different segments in time, where I think yours must come later.  Since it's your footage, maybe you can tell us the mission Time stamp for when it begins.

The famous footage I've referenced shows the flag pushed ONTO the screen, as we can see the "slant" at the top that demonstrates the flag is under stress (being pushed, not "at rest").

These 4 instances of the flag being push TOWARDS the LM, are IMPOSSIBLE... yet they happen.

I do not understand your thinking in how your separate video clip explains the IMPOSSIBLE that occurs in the clip I am referencing. ()

It's not my footage, it's NASA's.

Partly my misundertanding of whatthe footage you cited was showing - apologies for the confusion. The timestamp I gave was of pressurisation ready for EVA-2, which clearly shows the flag at rest pointing towards the LM, and the flag then moving away as a resuilt of that LM depressurising, which is discussed here:

https://www.nasa.gov/history/alsj/a14/a14.eva2prep.html

The footage you referenced does not show the flag in its entirety - attached is the view before the crew move the camera position. It is clearly angled towards the LM to start with. The flag is not being pulled towards the LM< it is rotating freely back towards the LM after being pushed away.

[najak]

The footage you referenced does not show the flag in its entirety - attached is the view before the crew move the camera position. It is clearly angled towards the LM to start with. The flag is not being pulled towards the LM< it is rotating freely back towards the LM after being pushed away.

So your theory is that the vertical pole is crooked, angling towards the LM, enough that if it's blown away, that it keeps coming back?

For how long does this "depressurization" last?

If you look at my footage, you'll see that the flag was off screen for the first 11 minutes.
11:05 - it comes on screen for 16 seconds, very steady.  <== pushed towards LM... was away for 11 minutes.. that's not Depressurization.
11:45 - comes back on again for 30 seconds.   <== while on, no blowing... if Depressurization happening, we'd have turbulence.
13:54 - comes back on for 5 seconds
14:01 - back on for 1 second
Then it remains gone from then on.

Now here's a real bite -- that Apollogists have done all along, and just did again here within the last year... when they "Moved locations" of this video (taking down the old video)-- the "new" video truncates the rightmost few pixels -- which are the most telling.

Here's a video from Jet Wintzer (who isn't as smart as he thinks he is), where it shows the "top white stripe" that is stressed, demonstrating that it's at a SLANT -- which must be caused by a force.

This type of slimy "alterations" have been done many times, when a "mess up" becomes too obvious and problematic, such as this Flag blowing TOWARDS the LM -- and the SLANT is what makes it most obvious.

https://youtu.be/p_66cqMQsW4?t=54

So I don't think your "leaning pole causes it to fall back to onscreen" works for a few reasons:
1. Flag is offscreen for 11 minutes, then pushes on screen with a SLANT.. demonstrating pressure from the OTHER SIDE.
2. It spends FAR MORE TIME OFFSCREEN than ON SCREEN -- the Depressurization was supposedly quite fast (2 minutes?)
3. The Slant at the top reveals pressure pushing on the flag material TOWARDS the LM.
4. If the vertical pole was slanted towards the LM -- then the Flag edge would have also had *some* slant downwards.  Instead it was very vertical-- indicating a very vertical upright pole.   And instead showed the top slant in the opposite direction!

So your "pole was slanted" hypothesis seems to fail critically for these 4 four reasons.  Do you agree?

[onebigmonkey]

No.

Photographic evidence of the flagpole not being vertical proves it was not vertical.

Aside from the RCS hot fires, there are two flag movement events. Both events coincide exactly with LM depressurisations. The flag can rotate freely on the slanted pole. It comes to rest when it has finished oscillating in response to air currents from the LM. That resting position can be confirmed by photographs and the 16mm footage.

The flag is not being blown towards the LM. Footage has not been modified. There is no studio. Websites change all the time.

[onebigmonkey]

The flag in each of these three images is in exactly the same position at different points in the mission.

It is off screen in the final TV footage because the camera has changed view.

It re-appears as it oscillates thanks to the air movement before returning to a final resting place off camera.

[najak]

The flag in each of these three images is in exactly the same position at different points in the mission.

It is off screen in the final TV footage because the camera has changed view.

It re-appears as it oscillates thanks to the air movement before returning to a final resting place off camera.

Thanks for the graphic!   I'm researching the Journal and timing now.   We can derive the Decompression rates and time intervals pretty accurately from this.   I'll post again when done.

Was the same camera transmitting SSTV to Earth, while also filming this scene with 16mm film?  Or were there two cameras involved?

[najak]

The flag in each of these three images is in exactly the same position at different points in the mission.
It is off screen in the final TV footage because the camera has changed view.
It re-appears as it oscillates thanks to the air movement before returning to a final resting place off camera.

I have made a good start on the Rough Draft of the document to fully analyze this super-natural phenomenon.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KnnsXE97fKJZ-CJYv7j_G9eVdgwW960LUeOCGz5uarE/edit?usp=sharing

Page 2-3 - covers a full analysis of the Depressurization timing and duration from the Journal + Audio track.

It has an associated spreadsheet where the math is done, to figure the Exhaust Rate (oz/sec) as a function of time -- 2 minutes TOTAL, including a 40 second pause.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_7OaXUWMiiNKzo50J9WBvDjEzNZoKmPBx8XndBtHaMI/edit?usp=sharing

SUMMARY: (starts at 131:07:16 [1:07])
15 sec - High- 2.2 oz/sec
40 sec - Paused
15 sec - High - 2.6 oz/sec
30 sec - Med - 1 oz/sec
15 sec - Low - 0.5 oz/sec
30 sec - Very Low - 0.15 oz/sec,  0.2 PSI left.

So please adjust your hypothesis to account for this timing, now that it's clearly known/provable, the timing and exhaust rates for this 2 minutes decompression.

[onebigmonkey]

The flag in each of these three images is in exactly the same position at different points in the mission.

It is off screen in the final TV footage because the camera has changed view.

It re-appears as it oscillates thanks to the air movement before returning to a final resting place off camera.

Thanks for the graphic!   I'm researching the Journal and timing now.   We can derive the Decompression rates and time intervals pretty accurately from this.   I'll post again when done.

Was the same camera transmitting SSTV to Earth, while also filming this scene with 16mm film?  Or were there two cameras involved?

All the information you need to answer your question is freely available.

[onebigmonkey]

The flag in each of these three images is in exactly the same position at different points in the mission.
It is off screen in the final TV footage because the camera has changed view.
It re-appears as it oscillates thanks to the air movement before returning to a final resting place off camera.

I have made a good start on the Rough Draft of the document to fully analyze this super-natural phenomenon.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KnnsXE97fKJZ-CJYv7j_G9eVdgwW960LUeOCGz5uarE/edit?usp=sharing

Page 2-3 - covers a full analysis of the Depressurization timing and duration from the Journal + Audio track.

It has an associated spreadsheet where the math is done, to figure the Exhaust Rate (oz/sec) as a function of time -- 2 minutes TOTAL, including a 40 second pause.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_7OaXUWMiiNKzo50J9WBvDjEzNZoKmPBx8XndBtHaMI/edit?usp=sharing

SUMMARY: (starts at 131:07:16 [1:07])
15 sec - High- 2.2 oz/sec
40 sec - Paused
15 sec - High - 2.6 oz/sec
30 sec - Med - 1 oz/sec
15 sec - Low - 0.5 oz/sec
30 sec - Very Low - 0.15 oz/sec,  0.2 PSI left.

So please adjust your hypothesis to account for this timing, now that it's clearly known/provable, the timing and exhaust rates for this 2 minutes decompression.

Here's all the adjustment I think needs doing to my explanation: