Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched

[najak]

After all the hoohah about "agreeing to disagree" you seem to be afraid yourself. I await what is likely to be evasive obfuscation/ diversionary rebuttal to the video.

Why would you think a thread that "proves it was on the moon" is a dumb thread?

My thesis only shows that we the 8 Flag motions alone currently have no viable hypothesis to explain them.  This is correct, unless you'd like to prove it wrong.

Showing a pendulum, doesn't explain these 8 Flag motions.

But if you want to show "here's how I know we were on the moon" - please present that topic.  Or if it's not of interest, don't.

[Mag40]

Is he really whining about off-topic?

Look at his own posts - 83 / 88 /90 /95

Look at how he wanted to close the thread, "agree to disagree"! Now he's afraid to incorporate the same mission with specific footage rendering his claims moot.

[Mag40]

Why would you think a thread that "proves it was on the moon" is a dumb thread?

Well firstly it doesn't and secondly repetition. You're already starting to make HB Bingo noises,

Showing a pendulum, doesn't explain these 8 Flag motions.

I looked at the flag position prior to it falling, and it was pointed at the camera. You said some lie about it doing a 180. It's right on the very edge of the hi quality video after the camera is picked up. I'm not even sure it moves at all. The original footage is replete with motion artefacts that push the video visibly in all directions. The new data stream could be prone to misinterpreting this data misalignment.

That is why Dwight would definitely be able to help here. I suspect JayUtah could too, but he's not impressed with the old Gish-gallup. The multiple threads all at once and the "missing" 100% integrity.

[najak]

Why would you think a thread that "proves it was on the moon" is a dumb thread?

Well firstly it doesn't and secondly repetition. You're already starting to make HB Bingo noises,

Showing a pendulum, doesn't explain these 8 Flag motions.

I looked at the flag position prior to it falling, and it was pointed at the camera. You said some lie about it doing a 180. It's right on the very edge of the hi quality video after the camera is picked up. I'm not even sure it moves at all. The original footage is replete with motion artefacts that push the video visibly in all directions. The new data stream could be prone to misinterpreting this data misalignment.

That is why Dwight would definitely be able to help here. I suspect JayUtah could too, but he's not impressed with the old Gish-gallup. The multiple threads all at once and the "missing" 100% integrity.

If you'd like to author a rebuttal for the document, specifically for the 8 flag motions  - tell me how you want it to look, and I can include it.

My knowledge base has about 100 articles already drafted.   I even have a section for Apollogists (called MLB here - Moon Landing Believers).  We could add articles here that you feel are worthy of being documented in this context -- such as the "tape measure pendulum".

[Mag40]

]If you'd like to author a rebuttal for the document, specifically for the 8 flag motions  - tell me how you want it to look, and I can include it.

I'd like you to address the video presented to you and stop making out you are some 'truth-seeking' historian documenting his big achievement.

My knowledge base ..

Is driven by confirmation bias with the primary goal for every response given to you to find anything, no matter how daft, to obfuscate it, divert from it or avoid it.

[najak]

Is driven by confirmation bias with the primary goal for every response given to you to find anything, no matter how daft, to obfuscate it, divert from it or avoid it.

I believe I could reasonably cast this accusation right back at you.   I'd like to hear what "neutral eyes" would conclude.

[TimberWolfAu]

My thesis only shows that we the 8 Flag motions alone currently have no viable hypothesis to explain them.  This is correct, unless you'd like to prove it wrong.

IF that is your "thesis", then you cannot make any claims on whether the flag is on the moon, in a studio, in a dessert, etc, primarily as you have not provided any evidence to support your idea that they were not on the moon.

We have the possibilities that explain the movement in relation to manned lunar flight, whether or not you accept them. We will never have complete certainty, simply because the intricate details required are not known, and will never be known beyond educated speculation, however, you have yet to provide any evidence for your version, and here we are, some 11 pages later.

[najak]

IF that is your "thesis", then you cannot make any claims on whether the flag is on the moon, in a studio, in a dessert, etc, primarily as you have not provided any evidence to support your idea that they were not on the moon.

We have the possibilities that explain the movement in relation to manned lunar flight, whether or not you accept them. We will never have complete certainty, simply because the intricate details required are not known, and will never be known beyond educated speculation, however, you have yet to provide any evidence for your version, and here we are, some 11 pages later.

Yes this is my full thesis.  However it is "evidence of faked footage", just NOT PROOF of the Hoax.

Why?  Because this FULL DEBATE is a FULL COURT CASE -- with evidence from both sides.  No single piece of evidence stands alone.

I'm simply providing the evidences that I believe work to the favor of the MLH theory.  Currently, I find this evidence to be more compelling.  Call me dumb, that's a normal response.  Fundamentalist Christians tend to think I'm dumb too.  I'm used to being in groups where I'm labeled as such.

[TimberWolfAu]

So now "unexplained" flag movement equals hoax?

Sorry, "unexplained" flag movement equals "unexplained" flag movement, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm simply providing the evidences that I believe work to the favor of the MLH theory.  Currently, I find this evidence to be more compelling.

Are you going to share this evidence? To date, all I can see is you saying the movement is "unexplained", and that you believe it could have been filmed in a studio. Well, where is the positive evidence to support your claim? Where is the evidence that a studio even existed? Who filmed it? Where? Who built the set? When was it filmed? Why, in over 50 years, have we not heard from anyone of the people involved?

Or, should we conclude that no HB has provided acceptable evidence as to how the flag moved, we can therefore claim the movement is undisputed that the flag is on the lunar surface? No, we conclude the flag is on the lunar surface because of the historical record of Apollo, being well aware that 50 years later, we do not, and never will, possess all the minute, intricate details that would provide a perfect explanation to every single event in the historical record (and to assume otherwise is foolish at best).

[najak]

So now "unexplained" flag movement equals hoax?
Sorry, "unexplained" flag movement equals "unexplained" flag movement, nothing more, nothing less.

Unexplained movement == "hoax", NOPE, not saying this.   -- We are in agreement here.

It is ONLY "Evidence", because these movements are easily explainable if in the context of an atmosphere.

[Mag40]

Unexplained movement == "hoax", NOPE, not saying this.   -- We are in agreement here.

They aren't unexplained.

It is ONLY "Evidence", because these movements are easily explainable if in the context of an atmosphere.

The pendulum video renders it moot.

[najak]

They aren't unexplained.

Please describe for me your hypothesis that explains all 8 flag movements, and I can include your rebuttal into the doc.

[Mag40]

They aren't unexplained.

Please describe for me your hypothesis that explains all 8 flag movements, and I can include your rebuttal into the doc.

Without wishing to sound impolite, stuff your "doc". The explanations have been made in this thread. Your inability to reconcile them with your expectations is the issue.

[ApolloEnthusiast]

It is ONLY "Evidence", because these movements are easily explainable if in the context of an atmosphere.

You've been claiming for two weeks that this "breaks physics" and is "impossible". It should be obvious that just because they could be explained in the context of an atmosphere, it does not necessarily follow that could not be explained in the context of the lunar environment. This "argument" just distills down to, "I don't understand, therefore it is impossible".

Furthermore, these movements aren't the entirety of the video, so any hypothesis of atmosphere that they inspire then needs to incorporate the rest of the video to see if it's consistent. That's why the pendulum isn't a separate thread. Any positive affirmation of a lunar environment anywhere else in the video shows the Earth hypothesis to be false.

You will either address the pendulum claims here, where they belong, or you can continue to argue in bad faith by attempting to limit discussion to the tiny, cherry picked issues you've selected where you can safely disregard any other evidence. Make no mistake though Mr. 100% integrity, this is another character test, and one you very badly need to pass.

[TimberWolfAu]

It is ONLY "Evidence", because these movements are easily explainable if in the context of an atmosphere.

It is only "easily" explainable because you have refused to provide any actual evidence of the existence of the claimed studio you require. Are you ever going to get around to providing positive evidence for any of your claims here?