Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched

[najak]

It shows how ridiculous your claims is.

To be clear, my CLAIM is simply that these movements currently have no viable explanation within the Lunar context.  Period.  That's it.

Him pointing out that MLH explanations aren't so hot either... is a good point to make.  It is odd that the only "Mistakes made" coincided with the depressurization procedure -- which for this one is undocumented without reason -- they completely cut the journal here, to make it more ambiguous.  How unlikely is that?   (Attempted Damage control?)

This particular claim is one of my favorites --- "how can Apollo explain these 9 movements?"  (there are 9, not 8, as the 6th one has two parts.... moves on screen, then moves MORE on screen 6 seconds later).

[najak]

I ask again. Do you agree that the color TV cameras used on Apollo operated at 30 frames per second?

Sounds like a loaded question.   A11 was at 10 FPS.  Another (A12?) - 15 FPS.   A16/17 were 29.97 FPS, with more scanlines (550?)

It was an interesting setup with the RGB color wheel passing in front, producing some artifacts, such as making the shrapnel of the A15/16/17 launches appear rainbow colored.

From what I can see from alignment of audio-tracks to video footage, of the A16 (which starts from "Ignition" to "Pitchover!", 9 seconds) - the 30 FPS rate of the A16 take-off appears to be accurate better than 10%.

What are you getting at here?

[dwight]

How can it be a loaded question? No color TV camera on Apollo 11 operated at 10fps. Who told you that? There were two models of color TV camera: Westinghouse sequential color camera, and on 15,16,17 on the Rover the RCA sequential color camera. Where did you read about 15fps TV camera?

I ask as I'd like to know if you think they operated at a different frame rate to that noted in their specs.

[najak]

Are you saying the film should be slowed to 40% of the original value or the playback speed when put into modern video software should be reduced from 100% playback speed to 60% playback speed?

Are you new to MLH theory?  If so, I'll explain a few concepts.

To Simulate Lunar gravity EXACTLY, we only need to slow the frame rate to 40%. (meaning a 60% slowdown, a factor of 2.5x)... 2.5^2= 6.25... which is nearly the ratio of Earth to Moon gravity.

However, the slowdown was almost NEVER 40%...  but only for cases where objects were thrown/dropped on purpose... such as the hammer/feather.... and the SEQ tape pendulum (although here it looks like they may have only done 50%, ooops).

The other way to simulate lunar gravity is "wire suspension", to slow their fall, and increase their rise height.    The MLH theory posits that it was USUALLY A MIX between the two.  Because it's really awkward to truly only be 1/6th your weight....  instead they would split the difference, such as lifting only 50% of your weight, and then slowing the camera to about 60% -- combined -- these two simulate (well enough) lunar gravity..  (some slow motion coupled with some lift)

If you want me to go into more detail, please message me on this forum, or friend request me on FB.   You seem like someone with whom I'd like to have more conversation.   Not that I'd expect you to agree with my conclusions, but that our conversation would probably be fruitful.  You seem smart, courteous, considerate and genuine.

[najak]

I ask as I'd like to know if you think they operated at a different frame rate to that noted in their specs.

Ah, so you are asking about MLH theory in general.  This is off-topic, polluting this thread.  Would love to discuss it, but this thread is alive again, to discuss the Flag motions specifically.

Start a new thread?  Or engage in private chat?  Either is fine with me.

[dwight]

It is very much in keeping with the topic of this thread given that you have introduced speed variations. What is your intention to keep introducing topics only to deem them off topic later on?

[najak]

What you claim and what you prove are two different things.  Proof of this live broadcast has been slowed by 50 %.

I NEVER claimed this as proof.  In fact, LO FORCED ME to address this off-topic claim within another thread.  So I did as I was MANDATED to do, in hopes of being able to start a new thread someday soon.

As I did was I was mandated, WE discovered that this pendulum using the estimates for length WE came up with, showed a period that was about 10% too fast. (IIRC)..  But more interestingly, from the clip you can see the amplitude reducing to about HALF over this minute.  To me, this doesn't look good for Apollo... that's all I said.   I would NOT include this in my top-list of MLH claims, not by a long-shot.  It just turned out to NOT work out well as the TD's had intended.

[najak]

It is very much in keeping with the topic of this thread given that you have introduced speed variations. What is your intention to keep introducing topics only to deem them off topic later on?

The speed variation topic itself was already off-topic -- I didn't raise this topic... someone else did.   The "8 flag motions" has NOTHING to do with speed variations.

LO gave direct orders to NOT GO OFF TOPIC - yet everyone else is attempting to do just that.

[Luke Pemberton]

Are you new to MLH theory?

Not at all. 20 years or thereabouts. I just want to nail down what you are proposing so we have a common starting point. Otherwise we will diverge, yes?

To Simulate Lunar gravity EXACTLY, we only need to slow the frame rate to 40%. (meaning a 60% slowdown, a factor of 2.5x)... 2.5^2= 6.25... which is nearly the ratio of Earth to Moon gravity.

OK, I agree to simulate moon's gravity the film must be slowed down according to (1.67/9.81)^1/2. So we have to slow the Apollo film from 30 fps to 12.3 fps. Is this the starting point?

[bknight]

What you claim and what you prove are two different things.  Proof of this live broadcast has been slowed by 50 %.

I NEVER claimed this as proof.  In fact, LO FORCED ME to address this off-topic claim within another thread.  So I did as I was MANDATED to do, in hopes of being able to start a new thread someday soon.

As I did was I was mandated, WE discovered that this pendulum using the estimates for length WE came up with, showed a period that was about 10% too fast. (IIRC)..  But more interestingly, from the clip you can see the amplitude reducing to about HALF over this minute.  To me, this doesn't look good for Apollo... that's all I said.   I would NOT include this in my top-list of MLH claims, not by a long-shot.  It just turned out to NOT work out well as the TD's had intended.

As someone else says, bollocks.  This is no proof that this live broadcast has been slowed, remember this in NOT film, but TV and I ask you to prove it has been slowed to 50%.  Painting with BS is not a proof.  Either prove that the live TV has been slowed by 50% or retract the statement.

[TimberWolfAu]

To be clear, my CLAIM is simply that these movements currently have no viable explanation within the Lunar context.  Period.  That's it.

Depressurisation of the LM.

There you go, one viable explanation that doesn't require a multi-decade, multi-country, multi-government, conspiracy behind it.

Naturally, as part of your counter, you will need to explain how the flag moved while it was off screen, since that will influence how it moves while on screen. And, of course, you have a detailed explanation that covers why the flag moved if the footage was faked?

[najak]

Depressurisation of the LM.

How would this make the Flag come ON the screen and hold there steadily 4x over 3 a minute period?

What is pushing the flag towards the LM?

[Mag40]

Depressurisation of the LM.

How would this make the Flag come ON the screen and hold there steadily 4x over 3 a minute period?

What is pushing the flag towards the LM?

How does some pillock leaving the door open work? Amazingly only during depressurisation!

[najak]

How does some pillock leaving the door open work? Amazingly only during depressurisation!

With an atmosphere, there are viable alternatives to cause a draft, even if unlikely.

But without an atmosphere, the viable alternatives seem to be ZERO.

[Mag40]

How does some pillock leaving the door open work? Amazingly only during depressurisation!

With an atmosphere, there are viable alternatives to cause a draft, even if unlikely.

But without an atmosphere, the viable alternatives seem to be ZERO.

My god this guy talks such bollocks. Even if unlikely? Did anybody catch how appalling his logic is here?

We have two episodes where the flag moves about during an episode of depressurisation. Najak can't explain this gaseous effect on the flag or flagpole, therefore he bleats hoax. He then offers the ludicrous coincidence that suddenly an idiot lets in a gust of wind that occurs only during those episodes and suggests it better explains it without showing how?