Hoax? - Apollo 12 Lunar Rendezvous, Dish Falls with Gravity

[najak]

1. How did you determine the movement visible is not in keeping with the set parameters of the steerable antenna in eith manual or automatic mode?
2. Why are you continuing to use the 16mm footage's audio as a reference point for timing when it is best-guess synched to the film? The closest you can get to it being accurate is by using the TV footage as a refence.

1. We see the Rendezvous radar controlled by servo-motor, and how it moves.  We see the S-Band dish moving slowly as it tracks earth.  We've also seen many many other servo-motor controlled arms, and how they move. All are rigid/precise.   None swing loosely like a pendulum.   But if you'd like to insert the TD explanation that the S-Band Dish armature servo-motor was purposefully designed to move this fast, and that it's tracking algorithm could purposefully explain this motion -- great - we'll document that as one of the TD explanations.   It's aligned with Jason Thompson's proposal.  Write it up -- I'll include it in the summary/conclusion for this thread and my document.

2. Note, my main claim here is audio-sync independent.   Now that Jason Thompson pointed out the "switch to Omni Aft" prior to this incident, the insertion of static timing is now less meaningful.  Nobody seems to know why this static suddenly appears, if they were using "Omni Aft"...   
In short, the audio-sync dependency of this thread/claim has dropped out.   It's no longer a part of the MLH claim I'm establishing.

I'm only establishing now that the Dish contorts away from the LM, then snaps-free- bounces off the hinge constraints twice, then settles out LIKE a pendulum, with 7 more oscillations each with decreasing amplitude, and a similar period.   

This behavior appears to me as an unexplained anomaly for the TD's (Truth Defenders).

[Jason Thompson]

1. My claim here is that it "moved LIKE a pendulum".  My current belief is that it WAS a pendulum.

Semantics.

2. I'll document your proposal as the TD defense.  Do you have a preference on how to word this proposal?

I have zero interest in your activities beyond this forum.

Are you planning to address why this "reset algorithm might behave like a pendulum, instead of just moving direct to the reset position"?

Not any further than the already presented suggestion that spurious input or loss of tracking may cause unexpected behaviour. Perhaps it had a limited search function that then went to rest if reaccquisition did not occur. Perhaps it's just a random glitch or otherwise unexpected movement associated with loss of tracking. I neither know enough about the system to find out the exact detail nor care enough to try. You wanted alternatives, you have been provided with them.

If there were 20 other anomalies like this one -- would that cause you to smell any hint of fish?

If you present 20 'anomalies' that are then explained will that cause you to abandon the idea that it was faked?

[Jason Thompson]

I'm only establishing now that the Dish contorts away from the LM, then snaps-free- bounces off the hinge constraints twice, then settles out LIKE a pendulum, with 7 more oscillations each with decreasing amplitude, and a similar period.   

You keep using the word 'hinge'. To what 'hinge' are you referring to?

[dwight]

And any comment on Bochum being able to receive Apollo TV by pointing their antenna at the moon?

[najak]

Yes, I would point to the springiness in the system. But that is a generalized proposition. I don't know anything about the specific construction of the mount.
But you cannot get around energy dissipation whether it is a pendulum or any other oscillating system. It has nothing to do with gravity or not.

Energy dissipation occurs even in space - agreed.

My issue has to do with the "decreasing amplitude" of each successive oscillation.   In Gravity -- THIS is what energy dissipation would look like.

While in space (weightless), it would continue with SAME AMPLITUDE, but a decreasing SPEED..  it would simply "Slow down"... each time going to the SAME hinge constraint and bouncing off of it.  Each bounce would reduce the energy, and as it rotates, the hinge itself applies some resistance...   But in the end - it would randomly stop ANYWHERE along the path -- with the MOST LIKELY place to stop being just AFTER a bounce...  As the bounces would be the thing that reduces energy the most (like a step function). 

Instead, it hones in on the center position, reversing direction before hitting a hinge constraint.   Therefore, some FORCE has to ACT ON IT to reverse direction.  MLH says that this force is gravity.

So far, TD's best proposal is that it was the servo-motor running a reset-algorithm, and instead of just moving straight to "center/default position" it oscillates very quickly/suddenly, 9x before stopping.

I'm open to using whatever wording you like for this.

[najak]

And any comment on Bochum being able to receive Apollo TV by pointing their antenna at the moon?

Off-topic.  We could discuss this in a new thread -- start it, and I'll join in.  It can cover all 1970's live tracking claims, including Bochum, amateurs, Jodrell, Italy, etc.

[Jason Thompson]

Why would it continue with the same amplitude if it is oscillating around a final resting position as a result of ‘springiness’ in the system?

[najak]

I'm only establishing now that the Dish contorts away from the LM, then snaps-free- bounces off the hinge constraints twice, then settles out LIKE a pendulum, with 7 more oscillations each with decreasing amplitude, and a similar period.   

You keep using the word 'hinge'. To what 'hinge' are you referring to?

This dish is on a dual-hinge armature.  From 2-hinge motion (at 90-degree angles to each other), it can point in ANY direction.  We see both hinges bounce.  The armature hinge bounces around a couple times, and the Dish hinge bounces 9x.   The dish-hinge is the one which exhibits the pendulum-like motion.

[Mag40]

I'm only establishing now that the Dish contorts away from the LM, then snaps-free- bounces off the hinge constraints twice, then settles out LIKE a pendulum, with 7 more oscillations each with decreasing amplitude, and a similar period.   

You see a stupid pendulum that ceases completely, even as the LM continues to rotate on its axis and then yaw to the side.

You keep ignoring where I raise these points. You are making the absurd claim that the dish cuts loose suddenly then just as it stops moving it suddenly acquires magic stability as the LM changes orientation!

This behavior appears to me as an unexplained anomaly for the TD's (Truth Defenders).

Nobody cares how anything "appears" to you. You have loaded your mind with a conclusion and defend it with no  objectivity or logic.

1. You still haven't provided any accurate data that shows how the dish was connected or how it "disconnected".
2. You seem to be unable to rectify how Newton's 3rd law can cause an object to change direction, given that said object must be constrained.
3. You are definitely preaching to the fools on Facebook with your ego the most precious commodity.
4. Stop being a complete arse and address the bolded part above.

[dwight]

Off-topic.

Then why bring up the concept of nothing was shot in space in this thread? Please refrain from doing it in the future.

[Zakalwe]

If it had a motor to move it, then why would it need a wire? Or, if it had a wire to move it, then why would it need a motor?

Perhaps it only had a "locking mechanism" or perhaps the motorized unit was unable to "track the supposed earth location" adequately.   So they decided to rig up a guide wire to keep it's aim constant.

The Pendulum behavior for the settling out is a key point here.   This indicates gravity.  If weightless, it would continue at the SAME AMPLITUDE, only slower.   But this settling out shows 7 oscillations, each with decreasing amplitude.   Why did the dish reverse directions before hitting the hinge-constraint?

Pointless and baseless speculation without a shred of evidence to support it.  It doesn't even make sense.

The smell of elderberries and hamsters is eye watering....

[Jason Thompson]

This dish is on a dual-hinge armature.  From 2-hinge motion (at 90-degree angles to each other), it can point in ANY direction.  We see both hinges bounce.  The armature hinge bounces around a couple times, and the Dish hinge bounces 9x.   The dish-hinge is the one which exhibits the pendulum-like motion.

It is not hinged.

[dwight]

There has been no addressing of the manual vs automatic movement of the antenna. Why not?

[LunarOrbit]

And any comment on Bochum being able to receive Apollo TV by pointing their antenna at the moon?

Off-topic.

Nah, I'll allow it. After all, you're saying the antenna in that video was fake... so why was Bochum receiving Apollo TV signals from the Moon? You can't ignore that question, it is directly related to your claim.

[najak]

Why would it continue with the same amplitude if it is oscillating around a final resting position as a result of ‘springiness’ in the system?

When you hit a hinge-constraint, there is springiness to the response.

Are you now suggesting that there are springs inside that are always wanting to return to the default position?

The two hinges have motion limits of 180 degrees vs. 360 degrees.

Here's a performance analysis doc with diagrams for the two-hinge angles.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19720012253/downloads/19720012253.pdf

And here's a live picture of one, opened up, high-res:
https://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NASM-A19770614000cp01