2012 maya calendar

[Echnaton]

Spirituality is an experience, it's dancing in the mystery.

Yes it is and it can provide great meaning and joy in life.  But it does not provide any grounding for the understanding of the material world, that is the scope of science.

[Chew]

Mysticism; (noun): the study of equivocation. Origin: Late Holocene for those that produce and sell bovine fertilizer.

[profmunkin]

Mystics may tell you that, or many other things.  So what.  What science tells us is that there are various physical states to which we humans experience a similar response.

Science can't know spirituality, it can't know higher states of consciousness.

Where science studies the matter, spirituality studies the space

On what basis can science judge spirituality?
Science can only go where existence can be subdivided.
Spirituality is drawn to where existence becomes whole.

[twik]

What proof do you have that these "higher states of consciousness" even exist?

Back to the end of the bak'tun - I notice that you claimed that we poor mundanes don't understand what the Mayans said. But you, despite your spiritual awareness, also don't claim to understand anything - your basic response was "I don't know" about anything. You just assume that the date is signficant, in some nonspecific way. So, how are you any more aware than the rest of us?

Me: The December 21st date will not bring anything out of the ordinary.
You: No. It'll mean something. I don't know what, in any describable way, and you probably won't even notice it. But darn it, the Maya were telling us something of deep spiritual signficance when they chose their calendar to reach a cycle end on that day.

[Andromeda]

Mystics may tell you that, or many other things.  So what.  What science tells us is that there are various physical states to which we humans experience a similar response.

Science can't know spirituality, it can't know higher states of consciousness.

Where science studies the matter, spirituality studies the space

On what basis can science judge spirituality?
Science can only go where existence can be subdivided.
Spirituality is drawn to where existence becomes whole.

I'm pretty sure this is just babble.

[profmunkin]

profmunkin, put your cards on the table. What do you expect will happen on December 21, 2012? My own prediction is that you will see a lot of New Agers preparing their statements about why we just didn't notice the world ended, but it really did - for special values of "world" and "end".

Fair enough
Truly I don't know what will happen if anything. I don't know of anyone who knows.

Here is a possibility I can't shake.
Let me first propose a distinction
A person can contemplate, or direct their intention - this is not thinking - this is were creation comes from, a person becomes silent awareness and allows the answers to come from the silence.
Example - a person conceiving of Lego's
A person thinking, is a person that is hearing the echos of his mind, a slave to thought.
Example - a person may rearrange the Lego's

From a spiritual stand point, if you are not in the "now" or "silence" you are thinking, you are remembering or projecting, this is insanity.
We are becoming increasingly addicted to thought, which for the moment consider thought to be insanity, we are becoming increasingly more insane.
What the 2012 event may be concerned with is that the potential "maximum" of insanity will be reached and that there will either be a mass realization and in an insant a transformation in global consciousness or we will destroy ourselves.

 

[profmunkin]

Yes it is and it can provide great meaning and joy in life.  But it does not provide any grounding for the understanding of the material world, that is the scope of science.

I agree

It follows that if the Mayans are predicting a physical end of the world, science should be able to also predict an end of the world.
If the Mayans are predicting some sort of spiritual transformation, science has no capacity to even make a comment.

[Andromeda]

Looking at posting times, you are fully aware you have questions on the JFK thread.  Funny how you carry on posting in this thread, yet ignore mod warnings in that one.

[Jason Thompson]

What a load of twaddle, prof. Why do you think your definition of 'thinking' has any validity whatsoever? oh yes, that's right: so you can accuse those of us who actually think about the waffle you write of being insane or inadequate somehow, all to improve your own self-image.

Or, to put it another way, you are incapable of original thought, so you parrot the waffle others have written if it happens to agree with your chosen belief system, and refuse to actually do any thinking that might enable you to draw some sort of defensible conclusion.

Now get back to the JFK thread, where you have questions pending, and a deadline that you have tried unsuccessfully to circumvent, awaiting you.

[Echnaton]

Mystics may tell you that, or many other things.  So what.  What science tells us is that there are various physical states to which we humans experience a similar response.

Science can't know spirituality, it can't know higher states of consciousness.

Where science studies the matter, spirituality studies the space

On what basis can science judge spirituality?
Science can only go where existence can be subdivided.
Spirituality is drawn to where existence becomes whole.

People have claimed this for years while science has kept plunging into areas that mystics of all sorts have claimed to have exclusive rights.  I have some sympathy to the anti-reductionist beliefs that you follow, but the fact is that anti-reductionist simply don't have the ability to say where science can and can not be useful.   Spirituality, individual and collective, is based on personal experience and social constructs.  It simply does not tell us anything about the material world nor is it capable of demonstrating any structures independent of the material framework of our bodies and our accepted constructs.  More and more of a what we perceive and experience is coming under the purview of science.  Lets face it, we are material beings and the material world is best examined by science. 

Back to the original point of this tangent, without a through understanding of the material remains of the Mayan civilization, we have no hope of understanding their spiritual inclinations.  All we could do is attribute to the Mayan what we need them to be to support our own beliefs.  Does that sound like someone we know?

[profmunkin]

Mysticism; (noun): the study of equivocation. Origin: Late Holocene for those that produce and sell bovine fertilizer.

Mysticism is immersion in the mystery. The mystery is existence.
A mystic is one who endeavors every moment in silence, being within the mystery.
Why would you treat this with such disrespect?
There is a place for science and there is space for spirituality, there is no conflict between the two.

[twik]

profmunkin, put your cards on the table. What do you expect will happen on December 21, 2012? My own prediction is that you will see a lot of New Agers preparing their statements about why we just didn't notice the world ended, but it really did - for special values of "world" and "end".

Fair enough
Truly I don't know what will happen if anything. I don't know of anyone who knows.

Here is a possibility I can't shake.
Let me first propose a distinction
A person can contemplate, or direct their intention - this is not thinking - this is were creation comes from, a person becomes silent awareness and allows the answers to come from the silence.
Example - a person conceiving of Lego's
A person thinking, is a person that is hearing the echos of his mind, a slave to thought.
Example - a person may rearrange the Lego's

From a spiritual stand point, if you are not in the "now" or "silence" you are thinking, you are remembering or projecting, this is insanity.
We are becoming increasingly addicted to thought, which for the moment consider thought to be insanity, we are becoming increasingly more insane.
What the 2012 event may be concerned with is that the potential "maximum" of insanity will be reached and that there will either be a mass realization and in an insant a transformation in global consciousness or we will destroy ourselves.

OK. You've taken a calendar date, with nothing specific from the Maya actually recorded, and created a lovely tale about it. With absolutely nothing to back it other than it's a "feeling" that you "can't shake".

Your post, replete with wiggle-words such as "may" and "perhaps", boils down to "something is going to happen. Or it might not". You expect us to take as a given that there will be a "2012 event". However, when the day passes, and absolutely nothing out of the mundane happens, you will shrug and go, "well, I never said anything specific would happen. Just said it might." To me, this is not arguing in good faith.

[Jason Thompson]

There is when people maintain that one can explain the other. You want scientists to treat 'mystics' with respect, get them to stop waffling on as if they have all the answers science doesn't have, or saying that science is simply wrong about things.

Now, you, stop waffling on and meet your obligations on the other thread.

[profmunkin]

Looking at posting times, you are fully aware you have questions on the JFK thread.  Funny how you carry on posting in this thread, yet ignore mod warnings in that one.

Not really - I don't know what needs to be answered on JFK thread, at the big cheeses urging I looked over a few of the last 3 pages of postings yesterday and produced a post. If you are referring to the question of sharing my opinion of how JFK and JC were shot, it was previously answered, not sharing it.

I still have no intention of sharing my opinions on scenario for shooting JFK with this forum.
You can think that you don't deserve to hear them and you might be correct, but my reason is, why bother.
Thinking about starting a new thread concerning JFK, would this be too upsetting?

I don't take threats from anyone seriously.

I post on this thread because it has been of some interest.

[Jason Thompson]

Then you'll probably get banned, and good riddance. After your behaviour on the old forum, and your pathetic cowardly delietion of all your posts, why you are still here is frankly beyond me.