So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?

[Noldi400]

Maybe this has been glaringly obvious to everyone else, but yaknow, it really just dawned on me...

Heiwa's whole claim with regards to the LOI burn is that - with no experimental data, real world experience, or even a computer model to point to - he FEELS THAT you can't get that much change of velocity with that amount of fuel. That's just personal incredulity.

[Zakalwe]

I wonder will he (Heiwa) come back on here after he has had his a*se resoundably handed to him in quite such a manner.

"It's only a flesh wound."

Never underestimate the ability of someone who simply refuses to see reality.

When you have skin as thick as our erstwhile hero's appears to be, I think that a samurai sword would probably only inflict scratches....

[grmcdorman]

Maybe this has been glaringly obvious to everyone else, but yaknow, it really just dawned on me...

Heiwa's whole claim with regards to the LOI burn is that - with no experimental data, real world experience, or even a computer model to point to - he FEELS THAT you can't get that much change of velocity with that amount of fuel. That's just personal incredulity.

Not quite. He's misapplying kinetic energy (by redefining the boundaries of the system) and hence getting a nonsensical result. Specifically, he claims that the equation [jstex]\frac{1}{2}m_i v_i^2 - \frac{1}{2}m_f v_f^2 = e[/jstex]is true, where e is the enthalpy of combustion for the fuel and m_i is the mass of the spacecraft before the burn including fuel, and m_f is the mass of the spacecraft after the burn excluding expended fuel. Of course this won't conserve KE, and of course he gets nonsense results.

[Andromeda]

I think that's what is so irritating.

Being ignorant of something isn't, in itself, shameful.  I could probably reel off a dozen things I don't understand right now.

However, to be wilfully ignorant and scream abuse at people who understand better than you is a big problem.  In the long run, someone who behaves like this does no favours for themselves or anyone around them.

I am happy to help and teach people who are interested and would like to understand.  I have no time for people who abuse others for their intelligence and ability.

[cjameshuff]

"It's only a flesh wound."

Never underestimate the ability of someone who simply refuses to see reality.

And not just on Apollo matters. "If you don't follow these rules, your posts won't go through" seems simple enough, but it seems his sheer arrogance makes him incapable of dealing with a world that doesn't bend to his whims. He didn't just flounce off again...he kept trying without altering the behaviors that led to his posts not even being allowed through. I sort of wonder if he's still trying to post despite being temporarily banned.

[Andromeda]

"It's only a flesh wound."

Never underestimate the ability of someone who simply refuses to see reality.

And not just on Apollo matters. "If you don't follow these rules, your posts won't go through" seems simple enough, but it seems his sheer arrogance makes him incapable of dealing with a world that doesn't bend to his whims. He didn't just flounce off again...he kept trying without altering the behaviors that led to his posts not even being allowed through. I sort of wonder if he's still trying to post despite being temporarily banned.

Yes - that behaviour really puzzles me.

[LunarOrbit]

I sort of wonder if he's still trying to post despite being temporarily banned.

As a matter of fact, he has tried to login several times since I banned him yesterday. It seems like a waste of time considering the forum tells him that he is banned and when it expires. But maybe he isn't reading the error message and thinks there is something wrong with the forum.

[gillianren]

All this makes me even more confident that he isn't a troll.  I mean, that behaviour doesn't even really bother anyone.  It's an obvious and complete failure to understand.

[LunarOrbit]

Exactly. He seems to understand English so it's not a language issue... what we say just doesn't seem to sink in.

[Noldi400]

Maybe this has been glaringly obvious to everyone else, but yaknow, it really just dawned on me...

Heiwa's whole claim with regards to the LOI burn is that - with no experimental data, real world experience, or even a computer model to point to - he FEELS THAT you can't get that much change of velocity with that amount of fuel. That's just personal incredulity.

Not quite. He's misapplying kinetic energy (by redefining the boundaries of the system) and hence getting a nonsensical result. Specifically, he claims that the equation [jstex]\frac{1}{2}m_i v_i^2 - \frac{1}{2}m_f v_f^2 = e[/jstex]is true, where e is the enthalpy of combustion for the fuel and m_i is the mass of the spacecraft before the burn including fuel, and m_f is the mass of the spacecraft after the burn excluding expended fuel. Of course this won't conserve KE, and of course he gets nonsense results.

You, and I and most everyone else in this forum know his results are nonsense, and we know why - he didn't do the KE calculation correctly.

But how does he know it's nonsense? About the actual mass of fuel used, on his website he states:

I would expect that about at least 8 times (!) more fuel/energy had to be used to slow down the heavy - 32.7 ton - space ship.

My point is, from where did he get that expectation?  Typically, when someone gets an answer to a calculation that seems wrong, they go back over their calculations to see where they made a mistake, or they check the answer by using a different calculation method, or they get someone else to check their figures.

There's no indication that Heiwa has done any of these. Having no expertise in astronautics, he just "feels" that the number he got is too high. His calculation method was wrong, of course, but whether his result is right or wrong is almost irrelevant. It's only his personal incredulity that tells him it "can't" be right - he could just as easily be saying the same thing if he had done the calculation correctly.

I think that definitely fits squarely in the category of "not even wrong".

[Mag40]

He behaves in similar fashion to the multi-sock puppet doctor......the one who claimed they landed the LM remotely for some weird military purpose. Seems like a missed opportunity...maybe they should have a chat

For sheer comedic value it would be one of those bucket of popcorn moments.

[Echnaton]

All this makes me even more confident that he isn't a troll.  I mean, that behaviour doesn't even really bother anyone.  It's an obvious and complete failure to understand.

I agree. He really believes in conspiracies and tries his best to convince himself and others it is something objective that can show them to be true.

[Peter B]

Another thing which intrigued me was his rejection of the reality of the Space Shuttle. I mean, here was a program which consisted of 135 manned flights over a period of 30 years, including two which ended in fatal accidents. What conceivable reason would NASA have to fake 135 missions over a period of 30 years when they could simply say there's no way to return a spacecraft safely to the Earth?

(And yes, if you include all preceding and concurrent non-Shuttle manned missions, the numbers get even larger and the logic even less tenable.)

I remember seeing many times footage of someone pulling a Shuttle thermal protection system tile out of an oven, and then picking it up with bare hands. It's not like they made any secret of their means of protecting the Shuttle during re-entry.

[Abaddon]

Another thing which intrigued me was his rejection of the reality of the Space Shuttle. I mean, here was a program which consisted of 135 manned flights over a period of 30 years, including two which ended in fatal accidents. What conceivable reason would NASA have to fake 135 missions over a period of 30 years when they could simply say there's no way to return a spacecraft safely to the Earth?

(And yes, if you include all preceding and concurrent non-Shuttle manned missions, the numbers get even larger and the logic even less tenable.)

I remember seeing many times footage of someone pulling a Shuttle thermal protection system tile out of an oven, and then picking it up with bare hands. It's not like they made any secret of their means of protecting the Shuttle during re-entry.

I remember seeing that for the first time decades ago and thinking "How cool is that?" (pun intended)

[Chew]

Before the shuttle's first launch I remember reading a NatGeo article about the tiles. It included a picture of a block of pure silicon glowing red hot and a guy holding it by the corners with his bare fingers!

But the 'for de-orbit burn they were pointed backwards so how did it turn around before re-entry?' line was priceless.