Author Topic: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?  (Read 1098761 times)

Offline smartcooky

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1455 on: April 16, 2013, 08:31:41 AM »
I'm increasing tempted to finish every post of mine in this thread with a video of the Swedish Chef ("Björk! Björk! Björk!"), but doing it would be disrespectful. To the Chef. :(

Say after me..


"Pooot der rahber cheekin een der pot!!
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Glom

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1102
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1456 on: April 16, 2013, 09:29:00 AM »
He's getting more unhinged.

He's starting to outdo nasascam.

Offline RAF

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1457 on: April 16, 2013, 10:06:10 AM »
Looking at that page makes me sad...that someone could be so ignorant, and waste time and effort making that "joke" of a website.

Offline Mag40

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 278
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1458 on: April 16, 2013, 10:09:38 AM »
Anders, you are reading this. You know less about space travel than most 10 year olds. Your inept understanding of the mechanisms involved has been explained to you in very simple words......the actual way it works has been explained to you also in very simple words.

You don't have the money, you are a complete fraud. How you cannot grasp simple fundamentals that apply to all the thousands of satellites, interplanetary probes and manned flights into space........is just baffling. You are just one in a very, very long line of internet blowhards who get their kicks entertaining gullible people with their ignorance.

Congratulations, you must be so proud.

Offline frenat

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 460
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1459 on: April 16, 2013, 07:29:28 PM »
The only reason he thinks nobody has answered his challenge is because he refused to acknowledge/understand the answers.  It is nothing more than his own fault that he is ignorant.
-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
 -Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
 -There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong.

Offline Peter B

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1302
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1460 on: April 16, 2013, 10:16:20 PM »
...How you cannot grasp simple fundamentals that apply to all the thousands of satellites, interplanetary probes and manned flights into space........is just baffling...
On the previous page I posted a comparison to a battleship pulling up alongside an aircraft carrier and being lashed to it while they were both travelling at 30 knots.

I now think that was an inaccurate comparison. I'm wondering if Mr Bjorkman is still applying a nautical model of propulsion and steering to spacecraft.

In other words, imagine you have a ship travelling along at 5 knots on a course of 90 degrees (that is, to the east). Now imagine you want the ship to maintain that course and speed, but travel stern first. What would you do? You'd order the ship to do a 180 degree turn, then put the engines in reverse. At the instant the ship completes the turn it's travelling at 5 knots on a course of 270 degrees (possibly slower thanks to the turn). It then slows down, stops, and then picks up speed in the reverse direction (course 90 degrees) until it's travelling at 5 knots again.

I think Mr Bjorkman is expecting that the CSM has to do something similar to undertake the Transposition and Docking maneuver.

Take the example above and now imagine you have two ships, one right behind the other, travelling at 5 knots on a course of 90 degrees. You now want the front ship to reverse its facing and instead travel stern first, such that it's facing the second ship bow to bow. What would you do now? The lead ship would have to increase speed and head off at an angle (say, a course of 60 degrees) until you were a few miles away. That would give you enough room and time to circle around until you were directly in front of the second ship, slow down, stop and then accelerate in reverse, while the second ship maintained its speed and heading. If the second ship couldn't alter its speed or heading, then all the adjustments would need to be made by the first ship while it was reversing, until it could take up station bow to bow with the second ship.

But in space, direction of facing and direction of travel are completely decoupled: changing the direction the spacecraft is facing has absolutely no effect on the direction it's travelling.

Hence the reason I like to use the example of the shopping trolley (as long as it has four unlocked wheels) as an analogy for the motion of a spacecraft. I can push the shopping trolley in such a way that it completes a 360 degree rotation while it maintains a fixed distance in front of me (much to the delight of my sons).
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 10:18:18 PM by Peter B »
Ecosia - the greenest way to search. You find what you need, Ecosia plants trees where they're needed. www.ecosia.org

I'm a member of Lids4Kids - rescuing plastic for the planet.

Offline Al Johnston

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1461 on: April 17, 2013, 04:05:55 AM »
...How you cannot grasp simple fundamentals that apply to all the thousands of satellites, interplanetary probes and manned flights into space........is just baffling...
On the previous page I posted a comparison to a battleship pulling up alongside an aircraft carrier and being lashed to it while they were both travelling at 30 knots.

I now think that was an inaccurate comparison. I'm wondering if Mr Bjorkman is still applying a nautical model of propulsion and steering to spacecraft.

In other words, imagine you have a ship travelling along at 5 knots on a course of 90 degrees (that is, to the east). Now imagine you want the ship to maintain that course and speed, but travel stern first. What would you do? You'd order the ship to do a 180 degree turn, then put the engines in reverse. At the instant the ship completes the turn it's travelling at 5 knots on a course of 270 degrees (possibly slower thanks to the turn). It then slows down, stops, and then picks up speed in the reverse direction (course 90 degrees) until it's travelling at 5 knots again.

I think Mr Bjorkman is expecting that the CSM has to do something similar to undertake the Transposition and Docking maneuver.

Take the example above and now imagine you have two ships, one right behind the other, travelling at 5 knots on a course of 90 degrees. You now want the front ship to reverse its facing and instead travel stern first, such that it's facing the second ship bow to bow. What would you do now? The lead ship would have to increase speed and head off at an angle (say, a course of 60 degrees) until you were a few miles away. That would give you enough room and time to circle around until you were directly in front of the second ship, slow down, stop and then accelerate in reverse, while the second ship maintained its speed and heading. If the second ship couldn't alter its speed or heading, then all the adjustments would need to be made by the first ship while it was reversing, until it could take up station bow to bow with the second ship.

But in space, direction of facing and direction of travel are completely decoupled: changing the direction the spacecraft is facing has absolutely no effect on the direction it's travelling.

Hence the reason I like to use the example of the shopping trolley (as long as it has four unlocked wheels) as an analogy for the motion of a spacecraft. I can push the shopping trolley in such a way that it completes a 360 degree rotation while it maintains a fixed distance in front of me (much to the delight of my sons).

So that's what the Novgorod class were designed for ;D
"Cheer up!" they said. "It could be worse!" they said.
So I did.
And it was.

Offline Peter B

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1302
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1462 on: April 18, 2013, 12:00:56 PM »
Mr Bjorkman just attempted to post a comment on my website (see sig line). I marked it as spam and emailed him.

This is what he wanted to say:
Quote
Sea going ships operate in the interface water/air on planet Earth - generally only in two dimensions but with the risk of groundings in shallow water. Space ships operate in three dimensions off planet Earth and will hardly run aground but ... are very difficult to slow down. More at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/moontravel.htm . Prove me wrong and earn €1M at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/chall.htm .

This is what I said:
Quote
Dear Mr Bjorkman

I have received a message requesting that I approve your comment on my website.

I regret to inform you that I am going to treat the comment as spam.

I do not have the time or inclination to debate with you privately regarding our respective understandings of space travel. It is enough to say that the website you have commented on has nothing to do with my interests in space travel, and so comments on it relating to space travel are not appropriate. However, as you intended that the comment be visible to people visiting my website, I will post it on the Apollohoax forum so that it will be visible to people visiting the forum.

I would normally invite you to continue this discussion on the Apollohoax forum, but as you have been banned that obviously is not possible.

I wish you the best, and hope you continue to examine the historical record of space travel.

Kind regards

Peter B
Ecosia - the greenest way to search. You find what you need, Ecosia plants trees where they're needed. www.ecosia.org

I'm a member of Lids4Kids - rescuing plastic for the planet.

Offline RAF

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1463 on: April 18, 2013, 01:10:10 PM »
Quote
It is enough to say that the website you have commented on has nothing to do with my interests in space travel, and so comments on it relating to space travel are not appropriate.

Wow...how odd is it that he posted to a completely unrelated website?

Glad he was banned from here, as one of my major pet peeves is/are people who misunderstand/ignore the burden of proof.

looks like he misses the attention he was getting here....to which I say, too bad. :)


Offline Glom

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1102
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1464 on: April 18, 2013, 01:42:00 PM »
He wasn't banned for failing to understand how to construct an argument, but for sock puppetry and calling people Nazis.

Offline twik

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 595
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1465 on: April 18, 2013, 01:59:28 PM »
Why should a spacecraft be hard to slow down? Just apply a force in the opposite direction, and you're slowing.

I'm afraid Heiwa really does not get that it's difference for ships versus spacecraft. I'm sure he's convinced since there's no rudder or opportunity for drag from water to have an effect, a spacecraft is completely uncontrollable.

Offline Glom

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1102
Re: Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1466 on: April 18, 2013, 02:20:50 PM »
Why should a spacecraft be hard to slow down? Just apply a force in the opposite direction, and you're slowing.

I'm afraid Heiwa really does not get that it's difference for ships versus spacecraft. I'm sure he's convinced since there's no rudder or opportunity for drag from water to have an effect, a spacecraft is completely uncontrollable.

He doesn't get the idea that a spacecraft in a coast doesn't need to point in the direction of travel. Hence his incredulity at retrograde burns.

Offline RAF

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1467 on: April 18, 2013, 02:21:43 PM »
He wasn't banned for failing to understand how to construct an argument...

I'm confused...where did I post that as the reason for his dismissal???

Offline Glom

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1102
Re: Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1468 on: April 18, 2013, 02:30:58 PM »
He wasn't banned for failing to understand how to construct an argument...

I'm confused...where did I post that as the reason for his dismissal???

Okay I guess you didn't say that but you did say you were glad of his banning for that reason so I initially read it differently.

Offline RAF

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #1469 on: April 18, 2013, 02:51:59 PM »
Upon re-reading my post, I just don't see how you became "confused" as to what I meant when I posted "glad he was banned, because I don't like posters who ignore the burden of proof."

....but I'm willing to accept your explanation, and will now drop the subject...:)