Author Topic: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam  (Read 161884 times)

Offline Count Zero

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #90 on: January 08, 2013, 01:27:59 AM »
"I don't understand it, therefore it is fake."

"What makes one step a giant leap is all the steps before."

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #91 on: January 08, 2013, 03:29:28 AM »
"I don't understand it, therefore it is fake."

And that seems to describe the majority of HBs (certainly the ones that I have met). They always seem to use an appeal to incredulity. By definition, I guess, if they did understand it then they would know that it wasn't fake.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Andromeda

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #92 on: January 08, 2013, 03:31:21 AM »
"Lol"?  Seriously?
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Echnaton

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #93 on: January 08, 2013, 04:57:50 AM »
Here is my new page

http://apollo22.blogspot.co.uk/

Congratulation on laying out a new blog page made up of someone else's work. We have seen White's annotations before and they are not impressive.  Care to tell us what of this is your original content and actually discuss it?
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Daggerstab

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #94 on: January 08, 2013, 05:23:51 AM »
It seems that the "original content" are the "witty" remarks between the pictures. LOL.

And I found a glaring error - the astronaut with the colored foot is Apollo 12's Alan Bean, not Apollo 11's Buzz Aldrin. So, a completely different astronaut during a completely different mission. Good job, Eternidad.

The full picture in HD can be seen here:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a12/AS12-46-6728HR.jpg

What Eternidad/Jack White thinks is a footprint is actually part of the LM leg. In the HD picture, the sole of Bean's boot can be easily distinguished from the background.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #95 on: January 08, 2013, 05:54:42 AM »
Here is my new page

http://apollo22.blogspot.co.uk/

Wow. Just wow.

Is CTRL-C and CTRL-P the only contribution that you are going to make? Most, if not all (I couldn't be bothered spending too long on your site to be honest) of the content is long-debunked stuff that has just been plagiarised from other sources.

There's hundreds of similar sites on the Web all repeating the same old guff. Do yourself a favour Eternidad195. Instead of wasting your time, our bandwidth and our time, spend an afternoon on clavius.org and the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal and see if you can educate yourself a little.

M-Kay?
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Mag40

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #96 on: January 08, 2013, 06:04:03 AM »
a) The "alien" boot print is a an angled toe print from the boot.
b) The "backdrops" are mountains sometimes up to 10km away.
c) Aldrin doesn't come down the ladder in Earth gravity, he just gently drops between rungs on his stronger foot in 1/6th gravity.
d) "little man big door". Just rubbish. He has cropped the pictures. The full picture looks fine and he is inside the LM and away from the hatch on the first one. "Impossible lighting", very bizzare claim, since it is perfectly obvious that the edges that face the surface are brighter.
e) "Can you see the alien object superimposed to the articulation? It's a bottle" - No it isn't.
f)  "How can Buzz Aldrin be different sizes? " This is just stupid. He is further away for heavens sake! Jack White assumes that distance is easy to judge in a photograph on the Moon. Just look at the eva footage and you can see the solar wind experiment is about 30 feet away from the flag.

When/if you respond to that, I may consider bombarding my senses with more of that page.

It may come as a huge surprise to you, but people debunked this crap many years ago:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5911

http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax-jw.htm



Offline Daggerstab

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #97 on: January 08, 2013, 06:30:19 AM »
Here are some more comments, because I want to close the tabs with the pictures:

Quote
I find lots of inconsistencies between these photographs.
They don't seem to be two consecutive pictures, because of all the differences between them.

The ladder and the door of the picture on the left are much wider than the other one.

There is a blue triangle in one picture and none in the other one.

There is a white thing on the first picture and none in the other one.

The United States plate is sort of bigger in the first picture than in the other one.

It also remains in the same place even if the picture rotates.

Here are high-resolution scans of those two pictures:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/AS11-40-5862HR.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/AS11-40-5863HR.jpg

It is really easy to notice that the first picture was made from a position closer to the lander, almost at the foot of the ladder, and that the second one is made from further away and to the side. They are consecutive pictures, with some time elapsed between them. Armstrong probably decided to move away to free the spot in front of the ladder and give a side view of Aldrin's exit. (Otherwise, most of the photos would be showing Aldrin's ass.)

The apparent widths of the door and the ladder change because of the different distance and different angle.

The "blue triangle" is the triangular window of the LM. It's dark in the first picture, and in the second picture, it reflects a piece of moonscape. The difference is again due to the different position of the photographer.

The "white thing" is a shiny surface on the side of the LM, probably on the fuel tank. The whole length of the cylindrical side of the "front part" of the LM is visible. On the second picture, only a part of the side of the cylinder is visible, and a possible view of the same shiny spot is blocked by the jet deflection skirt of the RCS thrusters.

The "United States" decal is bigger in the first picture, because it was closer to the camera than in the second picture. Its position does change, though not by much. It was attached to a surface that was at an angle to the photographer in both cases.

Quote
How can Buzz Aldrin be different sizes?

He should be the same height, wherever he is, and not a tall man in a picture and a tiny one in another one, unless he's a shape shifting moonman

No, he shouldn't be the same height. His apparent size will vary with distance to the camera. The same applies to the other objects in the scene. Do you know perspective works, Eternidad?

Here are the high-resolution scans of those two pictures of Apollo 17:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a17/AS17-148-22756HR.jpg - this is an extreme close up of the Command Module,showing the aluminium-covered strips  on its surface
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a17/AS17-145-22272HR.jpg - this is the Command Module some time before docking (the usual dishonest tricks are in place - only a cropped version of the second picture is presented, rotated and scaled to create the illusion that both pictures were made from the same distance to the CM)

The purpose of the shiny covering is the same as the purpose of the "shiny foil" on the LM - thermal control. It reflects the heat radiation of the Sun back into space. (For the same reason the insides of thermos bottles are mirror-like.)

The strips are visible in the first picture only because of the extremely small distance and the angle of illumination. On the second picture, the CM is far away and the picture is a bit blurred (out of focus?), which makes small details harder to distinguish. Also, that particular part of the CM is illuminated by the Moon with even color (look at the high resolution picture linked above) - that's why is looks evenly gray. It's possible to see striping on the second picture on the sunlit part of the CM, though it's less distinct due to the greater distance and the blurring.

Offline Andromeda

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #98 on: January 08, 2013, 06:41:28 AM »

No, he shouldn't be the same height. His apparent size will vary with distance to the camera. The same applies to the other objects in the scene. Do you know perspective works, Eternidad?


Here are some simple examples for Eternidad.






"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #99 on: January 08, 2013, 06:52:17 AM »

No, he shouldn't be the same height. His apparent size will vary with distance to the camera. The same applies to the other objects in the scene. Do you know perspective works, Eternidad?


A clip from the British Classic Father Ted, which explains perspective well:



(I've been waiting for so long to be able to use this clip)
Formerly Supermeerkat. Like you care.

Offline raven

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #100 on: January 08, 2013, 07:15:58 AM »
Ah yes, another example of how living in a very strange place (Earth) has created biases, commonly referred to by conspiracy theorists as 'common sense'. One way Earthlings judge distances is fading and blurring by dust and intervening atmosphere. The moon has no significant atmosphere, so things far away but big can look like the same as something closer but nearby, especially in a 2D picture.
Yeah, I am preaching to the choir, but this is for our 'skeptic' friend.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 07:17:56 AM by raven »

Offline gwiz

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #101 on: January 08, 2013, 07:21:46 AM »
(I've been waiting for so long to be able to use this clip)
So have I, but you beat me to it.

Eternidad - the "Buzz does a seismic experiment" effects are due to reflections in the mirrored surface on the side of the package next to his leg.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 07:26:07 AM by gwiz »
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...the ascent module ... took off like a rocket - Moon Man

Offline Glom

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Re: Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #102 on: January 08, 2013, 08:02:32 AM »

No, he shouldn't be the same height. His apparent size will vary with distance to the camera. The same applies to the other objects in the scene. Do you know perspective works, Eternidad?


A clip from the British Classic Father Ted, which explains perspective well:



(I've been waiting for so long to be able to use this clip)

It's Irish.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #103 on: January 08, 2013, 09:44:43 AM »
Eternidad, I still await your answer to my question from earlier about singling me out. I've looked at your page and have to echo the sentiments already expressed: there is nothing new there, and Jack White's analyses are notoriously bad. Jack white infamously could not tell one side of the LM from another (which is impressive for all the wrong reasons when we are talking about a completely asymmetrical structure) and was forced under oath to admit he had no idea how to properly analyse photographs during the JFK assassination hearings.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline AtomicDog

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Re: NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam
« Reply #104 on: January 08, 2013, 10:15:46 AM »
Eternidad,

I am certainly NOT you "friend" just because I visited a page with content you stole from Jack White.
"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." - Isaac Asimov