Author Topic: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?  (Read 556178 times)

Offline JayUtah

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #420 on: January 29, 2013, 06:52:23 PM »
I think the computers were considered "absolutely essential systems".

Somehow my reply to this question got lost.  The LM could only be flown meaningfully using fly-by-wire, using either PGNS (spelt this way but pronounced "pings") or AGS.  While direct-control methods existed to couple the RHC and THC to the RCS control logic, it is unlikely the LM could be flown manually in this way to a stable orbit.  However, with some guesswork, it might be flown to a suborbital trajectory suitable for one of the eccentric CSM rescue procedures.  But they would have only an hour or two to devise and effect the intercept.
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Offline dwight

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #421 on: January 29, 2013, 06:53:02 PM »
Funny thing is there is a film sequence of a technician kneeling in the vomit comet who does a trick to stand which knocks the pants of the Percy clip for visual impact. If anyone has the SCF Apollo 17 DVD set, its in the prep film sequence.

How did they do it? Simple circa 30 seconds of 1/6th G. Pretty straight forward to exptrapolate that to explain the "hoist up" to taking place in 1/6th G - which is from an extremely long sequence of TV with no change in the low G envoronment for that time. Geeze Sanchez you seriously gotta do better than that.
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Offline alexsanchez

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #422 on: January 29, 2013, 07:12:56 PM »
Please explain this clip.

Diminished gravity.

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The astronaut is clearly hoisted up while trying to stand up.

No, the astronaut is operating in diminished gravity.

Your fake contrition lasted less than 24 hours.  Do you see why no one believes you?
So he had really good ankle strength?

Offline ka9q

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #423 on: January 29, 2013, 07:14:11 PM »
The estimate of LM location came back about 4-5 miles aware from where most of the other estimates were clustered.
Has there ever been a final, definitive explanation for Eagle having overshot its planned landing point?

I've heard several theories. Gene Kranz claims it was due to Eagle undocking from Columbia with some residual air pressure in the tunnel, but that doesn't seem right to me. The mission report begins the discussion with:
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Particular care was exercised in the operation of both spacecraft throughout the undocking and separation sequences to ensure that the lunar module guidance computer maintained an accurate knowledge of position and velocity.
It then says the LM primary guidance system saw the 0.4 fps delta-V and the crew manually nulled it. Any residual delta-V not seen onboard would still have accumulated and been noticed in ground tracking. They undocked a full 2.5 hours before landing, just as they came around to the near side. This gave the ground a full near-side tracking pass before DOI.

I think the most likely explanation was simply a poor lunar gravity model, due largely to our inability to directly track spacecraft on the far side. Only recently was a dedicated mission, GRAIL, flown to the moon specifically to measure the moon's entire gravity field with very high precision. Two spacecraft ranged each other so they could do so even on the far side when neither could be seen from earth.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 07:44:38 PM by ka9q »

Offline Laurel

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #424 on: January 29, 2013, 07:39:53 PM »
Alex, this wire claim was debunked on the old board about eight years ago. Next?
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=theories&action=display&thread=608&page=1
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Offline ka9q

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #425 on: January 29, 2013, 07:40:29 PM »
The LM could only be flown meaningfully using fly-by-wire, using either PGNS (spelt this way but pronounced "pings") or AGS.
Right (and thanks for the PGNS correction, I wasn't sure about that).

The LM and CSM were both purely fly-by-wire in that every thruster was controlled by solenoid valves that could only be actuated with an electric current. But Apollo fly-by-wire came in two distinct forms: with and without the computer in the path between astronaut and thruster valves.
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While direct-control methods existed to couple the RHC and THC to the RCS control logic
Right. By pushing the stick beyond a certain angle the computer was bypassed and the corresponding engine valves were directly actuated. I suspect (but do not actually know) that this was tested on Apollo 9 but never used operationally. Even Armstrong's much-touted "manual" landing was anything but; the computer was very much involved in making the LM react to his stick inputs as though it was a helicopter.
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it is unlikely the LM could be flown manually in this way to a stable orbit.
I fully agree -- astronaut bluster notwithstanding. Gene Cernan says that during his Saturn V launch on Apollo 17, he practically 'dared' the IU to fail so he could take over and fly it manually into earth orbit. I'd like to ask him what he would have done had he lost his (IMU and computer-driven) 8-ball at the same time, especially since it was a night launch.
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However, with some guesswork, it might be flown to a suborbital trajectory suitable for one of the eccentric CSM rescue procedures.  But they would have only an hour or two to devise and effect the intercept.
Wow, I had not known there were any suborbital rescue options. That would have been even hairier than the Apollo 13 recovery. A lot faster-paced, too.



Offline JayUtah

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #426 on: January 29, 2013, 07:54:05 PM »
So he had really good ankle strength?

No, not especially.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #427 on: January 29, 2013, 08:05:06 PM »
Alex, this wire claim was debunked on the old board about eight years ago. Next?
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=theories&action=display&thread=608&page=1

He's cribbing from Aulis.  That was all debunked 8-10 years ago.  It's hilarious when people call you sheeple after they just stumbled across a web site full of old claims for the first time.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline alexsanchez

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #428 on: January 29, 2013, 08:09:33 PM »
Alex, this wire claim was debunked on the old board about eight years ago. Next?
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=theories&action=display&thread=608&page=1
I see the guy who argued for it was banned.

Offline raven

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #429 on: January 29, 2013, 08:10:53 PM »
raven:
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Well. Gordon Cooper did something like that, rather the reverse actually, to deorbit his Faith 7 capsule. This is just my layman's conjecture, but it would not surprise me.

Actually, I thought of that while I was typing that post. Not taking anything away from Gordo - he was some helluva pilot - but he only had to hold attitude for a few seconds while the retros fired. That's a far cry from several minutes of guiding a busted spacecraft near the ground.
Fair enough, not an engineer.
There was also the Lunar Escape Systems, probably about the most bare bones thing ever designed to put a human into orbit around any celestial body.

Offline ka9q

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #430 on: January 29, 2013, 08:14:52 PM »
I see the guy who argued for it was banned.
Can you figure out why?

Offline AtomicDog

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #431 on: January 29, 2013, 08:18:07 PM »
Alex, this wire claim was debunked on the old board about eight years ago. Next?
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=theories&action=display&thread=608&page=1
I see the guy who argued for it was banned.

For violating the Terms of Service.
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Offline Echnaton

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #432 on: January 29, 2013, 08:21:15 PM »
I see the guy who argued for it was banned.

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Offline JayUtah

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #433 on: January 29, 2013, 08:23:48 PM »
I see the guy who argued for it was banned.

Yes.  Your point?
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Echnaton

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #434 on: January 29, 2013, 08:24:17 PM »
Please explain this clip.  The astronaut is clearly hoisted up while trying to stand up.  (it's cued at 2:05)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Zz9Bzi_GyD0#t=125s

Do please tell us why the was "clearly" hoisted up? What makes it clear and obvious to you as a layman as opposed to something you simply do not understand?
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett