Author Topic: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?  (Read 559160 times)

Offline Donnie B.

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #990 on: February 08, 2013, 09:08:51 PM »
For an adult reading Carroll for the first time, I'd recommend Martin Gardner's Annotated Alice.  It includes the full text of both Alice books and the original illustrations, along with copious footnotes that give a lot of insight into the 19th century English society that Dodgson was often satirizing.  Dodgson himself was a very unusual character (in any time period).

Offline Noldi400

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #991 on: February 09, 2013, 03:02:58 PM »
It is a selection of ad-hominem attacks on his opponents...

...which is typical of him.  While I'm aware of the content of his videos, I generally ignore them as I would any other childish drivel.  He has attempted since 2004 to engage me, and until recently (where he seems to have moved on to other interests) was almost fanatical in his attempts to get my attention.

He contacted me by email a few years ago demanding answers to some questions he had come up with.  I told him I would not debate him in private, since that would give him an opportunity to misrepresent what might have been said in private.  I told him I would debate him only in public, only in a moderated forum.  His vulgar meltdown at Yahoo! in 2004 is still available to be seen, and led to his banning from there -- this is why I insisted on third-party moderation:  Jarrah must be babysat in order to keep his debates civil.

Several weeks passed.  One day he showed up unannounced at the IMDb forum for Bart Sibrel's film and asked if I considered that an appropriate forum.  I agreed, and a debate lasting several weeks ensued.  It is still available for anyone to read.  He became stumped on the subject of space radiation, and couldn't answer any of my questions.  I tend to ask questions that cannot be answered simply by Googling for relevant facts; the answers require a deep understanding of the relevant fields, which Jarrah could not display.  One day he wrote a post liberally peppered with the verbal abuse for which he had become so justly infamous.  I saw it.  I did not report it, but evidently someone did because it was removed a short time later.  Jarrah knows exactly why it was removed, because later that day he posted the same post with the offending abuse removed.

This didn't stop him, however, from abandoning the debate and claiming dishonestly that the moderators were censoring him.  He used that lie as an excuse not to have to continue the debate.  It's too bad that many other readers of the debate saw his vulgar, abusive post and perhaps maybe even saved it.  (I didn't have the foresight to do so.)  But that is how Jarrah approaches the process.  He uses one excuse after another not to be accountable to his critics, while at the same time submitting them to the most vile commentary.  Many of his videos make no hoax-related point; they're just "Get Jay at all costs" rants.

I have no use for him.  He debates like a child and he is largely under my radar.

Out of curiosity, I just spent some time perusing your exchanges with him at IMDb and Yahoo.

To quote an old movie the title of which I can't remember just now: "That man* doesn't like you." It really seems personal with him. You must have disparaged his late man-crush at some point.

*The management does not endorse this term with respect to the referenced individual.
"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline Abaddon

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #992 on: February 09, 2013, 05:57:04 PM »

Out of curiosity, I just spent some time perusing your exchanges with him at IMDb and Yahoo.

To quote an old movie the title of which I can't remember just now: "That man* doesn't like you." It really seems personal with him. You must have disparaged his late man-crush at some point.

*The management does not endorse this term with respect to the referenced individual.
You didn't see what was removed. Jay is a high profile target. He operates in the aerospace industry among others. He has both TV appearances and consultancy. What hoaxer would not drool at the chance to take him down, show him up. In their tiny craniums, if they can demonstrate one mistep, then the whole house of cards collapses.

It's nutso. I am an engineer. Anyone who can do some basic research can know who I am. I have posted it here and elsewhere. I am not afraid of anything. One of the things that was important to me was, you sign up to a code of ethics, and admit to being beholden to it, and possibly prosecuted if you breach it.

The Hoaxers? not so much. All anonymous, no ethics.

Offline dwight

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #993 on: February 09, 2013, 08:04:26 PM »
Just as disturbing is the quest to go after Mark Gray. Here is a fellow whose biggest crime was to compile footage from NASA (and in some cases from CBS) into DVD format for the public to enjoy.
"Honeysuckle TV on line!"

Offline Noldi400

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #994 on: February 10, 2013, 12:42:48 AM »

Out of curiosity, I just spent some time perusing your exchanges with him at IMDb and Yahoo.

To quote an old movie the title of which I can't remember just now: "That man* doesn't like you." It really seems personal with him. You must have disparaged his late man-crush at some point.

*The management does not endorse this term with respect to the referenced individual.
You didn't see what was removed. Jay is a high profile target. He operates in the aerospace industry among others. He has both TV appearances and consultancy. What hoaxer would not drool at the chance to take him down, show him up. In their tiny craniums, if they can demonstrate one mistep, then the whole house of cards collapses.

It's nutso. I am an engineer. Anyone who can do some basic research can know who I am. I have posted it here and elsewhere. I am not afraid of anything. One of the things that was important to me was, you sign up to a code of ethics, and admit to being beholden to it, and possibly prosecuted if you breach it.

The Hoaxers? not so much. All anonymous, no ethics.

They are a very strange breed.  Rampant Dunning-Kruger is a common trait, of course, and a lot of topsy-turvy thought processes, along with an inability to see the obvious.

I've had occasion over the years to have some, well, let's call them spirited debates with individuals in my profession who have higher credentials than I do. I have, in fact, a reputation in my own field as a bit of a contrarian when it comes to traditional approaches to some things.  However, I do have a degree of my own and years of hands-on experience in my field  (Emergency Services), so I feel entitled to an opinion in that area. 

But.  That doesn't mean that I deny numbers in front of my face, or presume to think that just because I don't understand something it can't be understood.  You have to possess a special brand of combined arrogance and stupidity to debate an expert on his home ground, especially when you're not a expert in that field.

On top of everything else, it seems to me that if you follow their reasoning(?) to its logical(?) conclusion, it always leads - whether they acknowledge it or not - to some ultimate fantasy like aliens, illuminati, some other sort of shadow world government, etc, because in the end there's no other way to explain the level of complicity that would be required... pretty much every geologist in the world, as one example.  Not that the HBs use any recognizable form of reason or logic - their arguments are usually somewhere between PeeWee Herman and a late night political debate down the pub on Saturday night.

And of course, the Government-Controlled-Media are in on it.  It may be that people who haven't spent much time in the US don't understand and/or believe it, but do any of us here have trouble picturing the feeding frenzy that would happen if even one piece of credible evidence of a Moon Hoax came to light?  Man, Sam Donaldson would be out of retirement before you could say "Green Cheese" and I wouldn't be surprised if Uncle Walter came out of his grave to lead the charge.

It's not been my habit to quote the Bible in recent years, but the phrase that come to mind is that "They are liars, and the truth is not in them".

Sorry for spilling rant everywhere; it's late and my mind is tired.
"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #995 on: February 10, 2013, 02:56:03 AM »
I've said this on DIF to people who hold entrenched conspiracy theory views on pretty much every subject, that the logical endpoint of their irrational and deluded world view is this man:



There are plenty of them out there (the ones who believe he exists and it wasn't all hoaxed  ::) ) whose views are so poisoned and whose existence is so isolated from reality that they are only the possession of a gun away from the gentleman pictured above's actions - all justifiable for the cause. Regrettable loss of life of course etc etc but it's for a greater good you understand...

It's not that big a step from hounding people on-line to doorstepping industry professionals, then on to more serious stuff in their pursuit of their aims. Buzz knows how to deal with them.

Offline Tedward

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #996 on: February 10, 2013, 07:59:12 AM »
Might give it a go. I was more Three Musketeers, Treasure Island etc and H G Wells (for some reason no others until a teen) when I was a nipper.

My mom had two beautifully illustrated editions of Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass.  They're among the books I rather wish I'd stolen when I went to college.


Added to my reading list now, perhaps with Donnie B recommendation.

Next time I am at Hay on Wye, might keep an eye out for something along these lines as well. Any UK members familiar with Hay on Wye will know its full of second hand book shops. Chances of a good find are rare though.

Offline gwiz

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #997 on: February 10, 2013, 10:30:00 AM »
That's because it's also full of second-hand-book dealers, at least some of whom know their stuff.
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind - Terry Pratchett
...the ascent module ... took off like a rocket - Moon Man

Offline Tedward

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #998 on: February 10, 2013, 10:46:12 AM »
Aye. Fun looking though.

I also keep an eye out for old science books, pre internet, to see if they have any Apollo and associated stuff in them out of interest. Last purchases were some OS maps from the 60's and some books on Lancaster's and a guide book for US Army first visit to the UK during WWII.

Anyway. I am off topic now. Sorry.

Offline Andromeda

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #999 on: February 10, 2013, 10:50:47 AM »
Aye. Fun looking though.

I also keep an eye out for old science books, pre internet, to see if they have any Apollo and associated stuff in them out of interest. Last purchases were some OS maps from the 60's and some books on Lancaster's and a guide book for US Army first visit to the UK during WWII.

Anyway. I am off topic now. Sorry.

I have this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Horizon-Edge-Universe-Ariel-Books/dp/0563179546  which is amusingly out of date.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 10:53:43 AM by Andromeda »
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Offline gillianren

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #1000 on: February 10, 2013, 12:59:30 PM »
My mom's atlas from when I was a kid was out-of-date, but we kept it in part because it was really good for stuff in the US, even if it did have two Vietnams in it.  It also had this foreword that said, in flowery language, that there were people alive today who could remember when the Wright Brothers first flew at Kitty Hawk, and maybe some day, they would live to see Man land on the Moon!

I know that HBs are one and all ignorant of science, but they're also ignorant of quite a lot of history, too, not least the history of science.  They should all be required to sit and watch Connections.  Every little step leads to who knows how many other little steps, some that you wouldn't even begin to predict.  Just because someone once said something was impossible doesn't mean someone won't figure out how to do it anyway.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline frenat

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #1001 on: February 10, 2013, 02:30:42 PM »
I know that HBs are one and all ignorant of science, but they're also ignorant of quite a lot of history, too, not least the history of science.  They should all be required to sit and watch Connections.  Every little step leads to who knows how many other little steps, some that you wouldn't even begin to predict.  Just because someone once said something was impossible doesn't mean someone won't figure out how to do it anyway.

I've argued with that point against those that claim a secret space program with advanced tech or anything similar.  If somebody came up with it somewhere, somebody else, often in only a slightly related field will come up with it again or something that leads to it.  They like to claim existence of antigravity or unlimited energy but can never explain why no other scientists can come up with it.  They seem to think new advances happen in a vacuum and are unrelated to anything else.
-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
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Offline raven

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #1002 on: February 10, 2013, 03:08:27 PM »
I find a similar culture around marijuana proponents.  Seriously, if it cured cancer, don't you think the big pharmaceutical companies wouldn't find a way to package the component chemicals responsible into a pill/injection/what have you and sell it?
 It's what they did with foxglove, which is the source of digoxin that has been used to treat heart conditions.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #1003 on: February 10, 2013, 03:52:24 PM »
I find a similar culture around marijuana proponents.  Seriously, if it cured cancer, don't you think the big pharmaceutical companies wouldn't find a way to package the component chemicals responsible into a pill/injection/what have you and sell it?
 It's what they did with foxglove, which is the source of digoxin that has been used to treat heart conditions.

I doubt most of those people claim it cures cancer. What it does do well is alleviate much of the suffering from pain and the side-effects of chemotherapy 
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #1004 on: February 10, 2013, 04:06:35 PM »
Aye. Fun looking though.

I also keep an eye out for old science books, pre internet, to see if they have any Apollo and associated stuff in them out of interest. Last purchases were some OS maps from the 60's and some books on Lancaster's and a guide book for US Army first visit to the UK during WWII.

Anyway. I am off topic now. Sorry.

I have this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Horizon-Edge-Universe-Ariel-Books/dp/0563179546  which is amusingly out of date.

I have a number of original books on astronomy that date back up to 140 years, and they have some wonderful titles

"The Orbs Around Us" by Richard Proctor, 1872
"In Starry Realms" by Robert Ball, 1892

Prized possession in that regard is a 1930 first edition copy of "The Mysterious Universe" by Sir James Jeans
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 04:09:57 PM by smartcooky »
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.