A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists

[Believer]

Look, this is why I think you are a bunch of paid students or so. Clearly that was not proven, clearly the argument is avoided, there is only repeated battering of him with the same bunch of statements over and over again. It prevents knowledgeable posters from having a fair discussion and only convinces the ignorants who casually look into the matter. That is what I see. To bad, but that is how the Nazi's would work if internet existed then.

Did you just:

Imply that I'm a liar because I'm some sort of "paid student"? and

That I behave like a Nazi (or worse yet am a Nazi)?

If that's the case, I want an apology right now.  Whether you believe we went to the moon or not, I am someone who sincerely believes (well, knows) we did, based on what I observed and the historical record.  You have no right to label me the way you did.  Period.

Yes I do. That is not what I hoped for, I hoped that the first question, 'why do you all lie' would the subject of discussion.  With me as your specimen to examen. Because I don't lie.

Seen the reactions, especially the way of reacting, the moral level of it all, the evidence is clear to any observer. You don't want to have a discussion of what sort ever. You only want to bash, overwhelm, destroy. The truth is far from you.

And yes, how NASA could do this (or whoever does it now) is clearly like how the Nazi's could do it, how the Nord Koreans do it, and how any totalitarian regime would do it.

So it is not an insult as far as I am concerned, but a fact, demonstrated in the posts of this thread. You are not honest. You try to destroy free thinking. You sold your soul to the devil, to speak with Goethe. Like the Nazi's did.

[Believer]

Believer: If you're so sure, why don't you hire an attorney, and present your case in court? A lawsuit againt the US government would  give you instant fame and all the small young hoaxers would flock to sit at your feet and listen to your wisdom. Present your proof, please.

This is not about proof but about reasoning. Are you telling the truth (as you see it) or are you lying, as the OP stated. I tell the truth, and I think the way there is reacted to a sincere poster like me is beyond all reason. I think, that is very sad, unless this is a bunch of teenagers there is no way these are educated people of good will. Sorry.

[Believer]

Well...the poop level has won again. I can't believe you are real people. It's a sad, sad reality you live in.

Some one under you 'believers' must see the grotesqueness of these reactions I would think. The below all measures kind of reactions should demonstrate to the observer why this Apollo myth is what it is: a myth.

So this is the point where you declare victory and then flounce off right?  Or are you going to present some arguments against Apollo that aren't either long debunked or show a serious lack of knowledge in the appropriate fields?  Or perhaps just keep running around in circles until you have a meltdown/get banned?

It is really beyond all measure that people reacting in these insulting ways should not get banned.

I don't flee, since I challenge you to ask me and I will not lie to you, I try to answer.

Just this process is getting frustrated by the hammering of these 'believers', that's why I doubt they even believe in Apollo. If they did, if it was their hobby, they would be arguing with reason and logic.

I will not present proof because I have seen this exchange of fire about proof many times. It always ends up the same way. I can write your side of the story with ease also. No one will be convinced because of these stories.

I think filosophy and logic thinking can bring the answer to who wants to know. Only this Heiwa seems to have an undefeatable question about the fuel. So that should be an eye opener to the engineering people, if it is true what he says. Because the way he was attacked, and his argument not answered, I think he is right.

In history the wrong side has never had an interest in open discussion. They would lose that. Instead of that the wrong side alway oppresses free press and freedom of speech. That is what you see here right before your eyes.

No one with any amount of integrity can deny I try to formulate and argue sincerely and that the bunch of 'believers' here resort to malicious arguments, insults and falsifications.

[gillianren]

I will not present proof . . . .

Then why should anyone care what you have to say?  We will present evidence; who's having the open discussion here?

[Believer]

I will not present proof . . . .

Then why should anyone care what you have to say?  We will present evidence; who's having the open discussion here?

I made myself available to the original question, in case there are real people with some sort of education here present, who really are interested in 'the mind of the conspiracy theorist'.

If that was the case I could enlighten them a bit about logic and reasoning. And history, and statistics etc. etc. etc.

[onebigmonkey]

It is really beyond all measure that people reacting in these insulting ways should not get banned.

I don't flee, since I challenge you to ask me and I will not lie to you, I try to answer.

When do you intend to start answering? We have asked, but you seem to have just turned up to abuse people.

Just this process is getting frustrated by the hammering of these 'believers', that's why I doubt they even believe in Apollo. If they did, if it was their hobby, they would be arguing with reason and logic.

You can doubt all you like. you are wrong. I won't speak for others, but I will tell you now and repeat it with my hand on a bible that I believe Apollo to have happened as described. It is a hobby of mine, and if you read anything on my website you would know that I have argued with reason and logic for many thousands of words.

I will not present proof because I have seen this exchange of fire about proof many times. It always ends up the same way. I can write your side of the story with ease also. No one will be convinced because of these stories.

Then why should we discuss anything with you? You are challenging our beliefs without feeling you are required to say why? Who do you think you are? If you've seen this exchange of fire here before you should know the rules. If you want to play by different ones, set up your own site.

I think filosophy and logic thinking can bring the answer to who wants to know. Only this Heiwa seems to have an undefeatable question about the fuel. So that should be an eye opener to the engineering people, if it is true what he says. Because the way he was attacked, and his argument not answered, I think he is right.

Heiwa is incompetent. I would not sail on any boat he had been anywhere near. His argument was answered, he ignored the answers.

In history the wrong side has never had an interest in open discussion. They would lose that. Instead of that the wrong side alway oppresses free press and freedom of speech. That is what you see here right before your eyes.

No one with any amount of integrity can deny I try to formulate and argue sincerely and that the bunch of 'believers' here resort to malicious arguments, insults and falsifications.

You called people here liars and nazis. You've said you are not going to bother presenting reasons for doing so. Who's insulting whom? You don't think people who wander in here and start throwing abuse around deserve all they get? It's like the child teasing the cat who cries when it gets scratched.

For the record, 5 years old when Armstrong walked on the surface. My student days are long behind me, and NASA has never paid me a penny for the hours of work I've put in defending what they do.

[Jason Thompson]

Only this Heiwa seems to have an undefeatable question about the fuel. So that should be an eye opener to the engineering people, if it is true what he says. Because the way he was attacked, and his argument not answered, I think he is right.

Only one person ever considered Heiwa to have 'undefeatable questions'. That plus the familiar posting style... you're just not even trying to cover your tracks, are you?

Sock puppetry is pathetic. Give it up.

[Glom]

Heiwa was hardly undefeatable. He needed us to explain to him the very basics of the missing architecture. And he also couldn't do an energy balance calculation to save his life.

[Sus_pilot]

Yes I do. That is not what I hoped for, I hoped that the first question, 'why do you all lie' would the subject of discussion.  With me as your specimen to examen. Because I don't lie.

Seen the reactions, especially the way of reacting, the moral level of it all, the evidence is clear to any observer. You don't want to have a discussion of what sort ever. You only want to bash, overwhelm, destroy. The truth is far from you.

And yes, how NASA could do this (or whoever does it now) is clearly like how the Nazi's could do it, how the Nord Koreans do it, and how any totalitarian regime would do it.

So it is not an insult as far as I am concerned, but a fact, demonstrated in the posts of this thread. You are not honest. You try to destroy free thinking. You sold your soul to the devil, to speak with Goethe. Like the Nazi's did.

We do want to have a discussion, but all you offer are unsubstantiated claims.

I am not a liar.  I have my own integrity and self-worth to consider, not to mention my professional standing in two fields.  I will also swear on a stack of Bibles that I am convinced by the record that we went to the moon.

As for the term "Nazi", I am here and now demanding a public apology.  As a first-generation American, I have very strong feelings about the use of that term. 

[Zakalwe]

I love how hoax believers are so sure that everyone that doesn't sign onto their crackpot ideas is a paid gubernmint shill, without knowing anything about the person. Why are they so keen to believe this? Is it because they can then pigeon-hole anything said, without affording them a modicum of respect?

Heiwa said that I was ex-NASA and on the payroll without knowing a darned thing about me (in fact, I know a LOT more about him after 20 minutes Googling). For the record, I was born in England, grew up in Ireland and didn't stand on American soil until I was about 38 years old. yet because I asked questions of him that he could not answer, and showed him a number of errors in his "thinking" then it was deemed that I was on the payroll. Very strange behaviour and if you met someone face-to-face that expressed such nonsense then you would rightly think that they need to see a psychiatrist.

And of course Believer is going down the same paranoid route, talking about totalitarian states and the Nazis (ever heard of Godwins Law?). Using weasel words like "And yes, how NASA could do this (or whoever does it now) is clearly like how the Nazi's could do it, how the Nord [sic] Koreans do it, and how any totalitarian regime would do it" which are not only deeply offensive, but also show an unbelievable naivety. Just because something "could" happen does not mean that it did.

[smartcooky]

This is not about proof but about reasoning.

No, it is ALL about proof, and has nothing whatever to do with reasoning,. In fact, many scientific truths, especially those involving quantum physics, are totally unreasonable and counter-intuitive.

NASA does not need to prove that they landed men on the surface of the moon between 1969 and 1972, because the evidence proves overwhelmingly that they did. For this reason, I don't just believe NASA landed men on the moon, I know that they did.

If you want to state that the whole thing was faked, but don't feel you need to prove it, and instead, try to use some kind of "appeal to reason", then this is NOT the place you should be posting. You should perhaps go join all the Conspiracy Nutbars at Godlike Productions, where you can say what you like and not be called out on it.

Here, when you discuss the Apollo programme, you will be held to a standard of proof that is far more rigorous than most other places anywhere else on the net. The entire Apollo Programme is documented with many millions of verifiable documents, including detailed mission logs and journals, detailed schematic plans and diagrams, rigorous testing regimes for components, many hours of uninterrupted video, and many thousands of photographs.

In order to prove any claim of fakery, the claimant will be expected to show....

1. How the entire Apollo Programme was faked, from start to finish, with details.

2. How the documentation was faked, and by whom.

3. How the moonwalk video was faked, in particular, how the 1/6th G vacuum environment was faked (given that it is near impossible even now without the use of CGI which did not exist in 1969.

4. How, in over 45 years, all of the over 400,000 scientists, engineers, technicians, operators and observers who were directly involved in the claimant's conspiracy, were kept from blowing the whistle.

[geo7863]

Yes I do. That is not what I hoped for, I hoped that the first question, 'why do you all lie' would the subject of discussion.  With me as your specimen to examen. Because I don't lie.

I think you do lie big style Heiwa! and not just to us, I think you lie to yourself. You come across as being somewhat deluded indeed!

Seen the reactions, especially the way of reacting, the moral level of it all, the evidence is clear to any observer. You don't want to have a discussion of what sort ever. You only want to bash, overwhelm, destroy. The truth is far from you.

And yes, how NASA could do this (or whoever does it now) is clearly like how the Nazi's could do it, how the Nord Koreans do it, and how any totalitarian regime would do it.

So it is not an insult as far as I am concerned, but a fact, demonstrated in the posts of this thread. You are not honest. You try to destroy free thinking. You sold your soul to the devil, to speak with Goethe. Like the Nazi's did.

You obviously have absolutely not the tiniest shred of understanding about how Totalitarian regimes keep people under control. Your comparison is pathetic and laughable. You really need to use your computer to learn about the world you live in and its recent history, it might get you out of the lala land you live in and see real life, instead of spouting the utter bollocks that you do.

Quick Political history lesson for you fella, and I am not a political being or a historian, but even a decently tutored high school student can shoot your comparison down in flames without breaking into a sweat.

How did Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Kim Il Sung and his offspring, the East German Government all control their people like you believe NASA controls the world?

With Fear! with the knowledge that 'jackboots' may come crashing through your door as they frequently did, with the knowledge that not just you but your entire family faced true mortal danger.

With the knowledge that there is a Dachau or a Gulag in Siberia or an 'education camp' somewhere where there is a place available for your backside to sit.

And that information is widely known to the whole population, if it isn't then how do you control people? how do you keep people in line and in fear if they don't know what to fear? Where is that fear in the US?

Where are the secret NASA gulags? the NASA education camps? Where are the list of names of those who NASA have made 'disappear' to keep the population 'believing'?

The ONLY times in recent US history where anything like this took place, and even then it was a whole world away from the extremes of Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia, were the relocation of Japanese born citizens to camps during WW2 and the McCarthy anti communist witch-hunts! And even as shameful as these occurrences were to modern day man, there were no torture chambers, firing squads,  and work-till-you-drop-dead-camps!

Your comparison of modern day America with Nazi Germany is utterly pathetic and distasteful and you should be totally ashamed of your lack of basic knowledge when you compare people here to Nazis!

[smartcooky]

And yes, how NASA could do this (or whoever does it now) is clearly like how the Nazi's could do it, how the Nord Koreans do it, and how any totalitarian regime would do it.

So it is not an insult as far as I am concerned, but a fact, demonstrated in the posts of this thread. You are not honest. You try to destroy free thinking. You sold your soul to the devil, to speak with Goethe. Like the Nazi's did.

So, why are you still alive?

Why has Jarrah White not been dragged off to a NASA Concentration Camp?

Why has Bart Sibrel not been assassinated?

(Not to worry about Jack White. He made such a complete jackass of himself in front of the Warren Commission, that no-one took him seriously anyway)

[geo7863]

Why has Jarrah White not been dragged off to a NASA Concentration Camp?

It was the Twanging Nasal Whine that prevented that, they couldn't get near him through his own personal acoustic 'exclusion zone'!

[ka9q]

Me too, but I wondered not about that, I wonder about the energy put in the debunking.

I think you'll find nearly all of us agree on two reasons why we put our energy into debunking:

1. We are all interested in space exploration, particularly but not limited to the Apollo program. Some of us are professionals in aerospace. Some of us, like me, are professionals in related fields of engineering and science. And some of us have other vocations but are simply interested on a personal level. Some, but by no means all of us are old enough to have been personally inspired by the Apollo program as kids. All of us have learned a great deal about Apollo and space in the process of debunking false claims about them, and we find learning to be intrinsically rewarding.

2. We are justifiably proud of "our" positive accomplishments, where "our" goes beyond personal activities to those of other members of our professions, our countries and our species. The people who accomplished the feat of putting humans on the moon deserve to be honored -- not falsely accused of fraud, idiocy or worse. And we feel compelled and perfectly justified in saying so.

If you find it difficult to understand why others enjoy learning so much, or why others can be so offended by misinformation and false claims about people other than themselves that they're willing to spend their own time gratis to rebut them, perhaps that says more about you than anyone else.