Author Topic: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.  (Read 74948 times)

Offline dwight

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Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« on: September 17, 2013, 02:43:57 PM »
Oh my goodness. I, in a moment of weakness, watched his video about the strange TV cameras on Apollo. I can't work out if he is purposefully excluding information in his "analyses", or whether he honestly believes he is covering all the information, while in reality it is blatantly obvious he has less than a cursory idea.

Rather than go through all the points about which he is grossly in error, I'll just say everything is completely false. From his understanding of how the RCA scan converter worked, to the Rx of the TV signal at different tracking stations, through his misrepresentation that NASA controlled Parkes (instead of the reality that the CSIRO did/do), to his complete lack of understanding of sequential TV, it is painfully obvious he has little, if any, idea of what he is writing about.

I was going to respond, but I thought I'd spare myself the endless back-and-forth denial of being wrong despite being shown all the evidence, even with the assistance of finger-puppets.

My favourite moment? Where he couldn't get his head around how the scan converter at Goldstone could output crushed blacks, whereas the scan converter at Honeysuckle didn't - given that the image from the WEC camera on the lunar surface sent the same image to both tracking stations. I weep for humanity.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 02:45:40 PM by dwight »
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Offline Sus_pilot

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Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 07:01:33 PM »
"Output crushed blacks"?  I assume that it means that the facility could create a true black, but I could well be wrong.  Could you relate that to photographic term?  Thanks.

Offline raven

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2013, 08:44:07 PM »
Yeah, some of us are not familiar with the jargon.
Little help decoding, please?

Offline BazBear

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2013, 09:28:56 PM »
"Output crushed blacks"?  I assume that it means that the facility could create a true black, but I could well be wrong.  Could you relate that to photographic term?  Thanks.
I must be tired; I read photographic as pornographic on my first read  ;D

That said I'm curious about the jargon as well.
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Offline Sus_pilot

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 10:10:46 PM »

"Output crushed blacks"?  I assume that it means that the facility could create a true black, but I could well be wrong.  Could you relate that to photographic term?  Thanks.
I must be tired; I read photographic as pornographic on my first read  ;D

That said I'm curious about the jargon as well.

I work for a company that values diversity - in fact it's part of our goals as managers.  Do you have any  how hard it is to type the phrase "output crushed blacks?"

Offline ChrLz

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2013, 10:54:13 PM »
I haven't read the full thing (typical me) but in imaging, 'crushed' blacks (or blocked/clipped) are similar to 'blown' whites - in other words it is a region of flat and featureless black(white) that should/could contain detail if:
- it were properly/differently exposed
- the sensor/film's dynamic range was capable of capturing the lost nuances at the extremes of its range
- if the image had not been degraded by any number of issues
or any combination thereof.

The less capture and transmission 'bandwidth' you have, and the more generations of copying/re-transmitting/conversion to different formats etc, the worse it becomes, resulting in an over-contrasty and lower-res image that is short on shadow and highlight detail.

Usually, 'crushed' stuff is a bad thing...

Here's an example - the right hand side has crushed blacks and blown whites:

Offline cjameshuff

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2013, 10:58:17 PM »
"Output crushed blacks"?  I assume that it means that the facility could create a true black, but I could well be wrong.  Could you relate that to photographic term?  Thanks.

It is a photographic term. It's just the opposite of blown highlights, where information is lost in the dark areas of the image. The dim parts are "crushed" in amplitude...the image may have areas of true black or just not capture those areas with much precision.

Offline BazBear

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2013, 02:11:26 AM »

"Output crushed blacks"?  I assume that it means that the facility could create a true black, but I could well be wrong.  Could you relate that to photographic term?  Thanks.
I must be tired; I read photographic as pornographic on my first read  ;D

That said I'm curious about the jargon as well.

I work for a company that values diversity - in fact it's part of our goals as managers.  Do you have any  how hard it is to type the phrase "output crushed blacks?"
As long as Al Sharpton doesn't see it, I think you're okay.
"It's true you know. In space, no one can hear you scream like a little girl." - Mark Watney, protagonist of The Martian by Andy Weir

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2013, 02:54:14 AM »
"Crushing the blacks" is standard parlance in my trade for reducing the density level in the shadow detail of a photo or video to remove or lower the level of noise in the shadows.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 02:57:14 AM by smartcooky »
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Offline dwight

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2013, 12:02:22 PM »
Sorry about the jargon. Crushed blacks is exactly as described above. In the case of the A11 TV feed I was referencing the first moments of TV where the scan converter operator in Goldstone panicked and brought the black video levels down (crushing them) which reduced the contrast ratio significantly, hence the almost two-tone TV image. HSK on the other hand didn't have the panicked operator and had the properly exposed output. According to hunchbacked, this cannot happen as both stations got the same output from the lunar TV camera.

Speaking of Goldstone, there was another clown on the YT clip of my interview with spacevidcast who, not realizing who I was, attempted to inform me that a live broadcast of a live broadcast must be a recording. Then after pointing out the I began the word with "GF" instead of "G", insisted I learn how to spell "Foldstone" correctly. I kid you not.
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Offline raven

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2013, 03:35:22 PM »
So apparently Hunchbacked never played with the settings on his TV. :P

Offline Sus_pilot

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2013, 11:57:30 PM »

"Output crushed blacks"?  I assume that it means that the facility could create a true black, but I could well be wrong.  Could you relate that to photographic term?  Thanks.

It is a photographic term. It's just the opposite of blown highlights, where information is lost in the dark areas of the image. The dim parts are "crushed" in amplitude...the image may have areas of true black or just not capture those areas with much precision.

Thanks all for the explanation.  And, honestly, after being an amateur photographer for (oh my) 40+ years, I never heard the term!

Offline ka9q

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2013, 01:44:14 AM »
it is painfully obvious he has little, if any, idea of what he is writing about.
So what else is new?

My inability to get through to hunchbacked used to bother me a little. Most Apollo deniers are obviously quoting whatever appeals to them with no understanding or desire to even appear interested in the facts; I heard "arguments" like theirs every day in the 4th grade. But hunchbacked is much more earnest. He does his own "research". He's far more polite, though he has his moments. He rarely blocks critics. He actually has a (slight) sense of humor, occasionally depicting his (reasonably accurate) understanding of how we perceive him: a grinning idiot wearing a tinfoil hat.

I even got him to concede a few errors, and that led me to believe he might concede others if I simply explained things better, with references. (You know what they say about random reinforcement.)

But then I saw his complaint about AS17-145-22272 of the CSM from the LM during docking. His "incoherency"? We should see the side of the service module! I explained the obvious: the picture was taken through the LM's overhead rendezvous window which is closer to the overhead hatch/docking port than the CSM's radius. We are just seeing the CSM in correct perspective. He gave elaborate nonsensical "explanations" that had nothing to do with the CSM's geometry. I suggested a simpler way: just make a model of the CSM and view it with your eye close to the docking probe. He ignored it.

So I was already questioning his grip on reality when he put out his now-famous video about Buzz Aldrin's zero-G sandwich-making demonstration: "Buzz Aldrin" is an imposter wearing a Buzz Aldrin mask in a water-filled CSM, breathing through his headset wires, spinning a perfectly weighted can of paté.

I gave up. The guy is just batshit insane. His standard complaint, that honest engineers protesting against their CIA masters were encoding secret clues in diagrams of purposely unworkable devices, sounds an awful lot like Dr. John Nash's delusion that newspapers contained secret messages sent to him by the Russians.
Many of his recent videos demonstrate his remarkable inability to sense visual perspective but they're a lot less interesting than the technical ones.

So now I just have fun with him. (And yeah, I admit it. I play to the galleries.)

And he can be entertaining.His odd English vocabulary is another source of amusement. I wear the hunchbacked-awarded label of "disinformer" with considerable pride.



Offline ka9q

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2013, 02:46:45 AM »
Thanks all for the explanation.  And, honestly, after being an amateur photographer for (oh my) 40+ years, I never heard the term!
It might be more common in video. I heard the expression in the 1970s when I did engineering at a TV station.

The complementary expression is "clip the whites". We were usually looking at a waveform monitor (a specialized video oscilloscope) where pure white is maximum voltage.

"Clip" is a very common term in electronics for what happens to a waveform when it is abruptly kept from becoming more positive (or more negative) than some specified voltage. The peaks are "clipped" off. When you turn the volume control of an amplifier so high the sound distorts, that's clipping. Sometimes clipping is intentional, mainly in speech communications where it can improve its intelligibility on a noisy channel at the expense of fidelity and increased background noise when the speaker isn't talking. The shuttle's voice system still seemed to routinely clip speech even though it was all digital and didn't need the help. I always thought it sounded terrible.

Offline Obviousman

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2013, 03:02:18 AM »
Keep it up you guys! Most excellent work in bringing that ol' nasty reality into the HB world.