Author Topic: Apollo 13  (Read 221632 times)

Offline gillianren

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #375 on: October 27, 2013, 12:37:58 PM »
I did keep pointing out to him that, if it had been his tax dollars at work, it wouldn't have been happening at that time.  I suppose we could have been working for IOUs, like my friends up at the submarine docks, but I really doubt anyone would have considered it essential enough to bother.
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Offline Tedward

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #376 on: October 27, 2013, 12:44:58 PM »
Interesting. Cannot prove his point, and I know he cannot and will not, try another ploy. A cad then.

Offline Noldi400

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #377 on: October 27, 2013, 03:32:00 PM »
And he found that what he recorded was the same as went out to the public:--
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I asked Baysinger whether he found anything that NASA edited out – comments about things going wrong, the astronauts being loose with their language, or exclamations about meeting aliens!  He said no – absolutely everything was transmitted to the public on TV.  In fact he said, “that was kind of disappointing”.  Part of the idea of this project was to hear the unedited “real story”, and it turned out there was nothing edited out.[iv]  Indeed, Rutherford’s story (click here for hi-resolution version which you can read) makes no mention of hearing anything unusual.

It's kind of reassuring that at least one person who had at least some level of CT thought process going on acquired his own evidence and found... nothing.  And then seems to have accepted that, rather than do the usual HB thing of deciding that the lack of "damning evidence" simply indicated an additional layer of coverup.

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Anyone wanting to be amazed/aggravated by where our tax dollars go, try apollohoax.net then look up my thread, 'allancw.' Hundreds of man hours (and tax dollars), it appears, went into defending the official Apollo story against my little assault... Why would all these 'educated' professionals take the time and effort if they were not getting paid?

Evidently he found it too belittling to admit that most of his 'assault' was on the level of "Whose house did Goldilocks sleep in?" - claims that this group has heard and answered so many times that it wasn't exactly a major undertaking.  I think we spent more time discussing the Bingo game.
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Offline RAF

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #378 on: October 27, 2013, 04:15:28 PM »
Interesting. Cannot prove his point, and I know he cannot and will not, try another ploy. A cad then.

I'd call him an intellectual coward.

Offline sts60

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #379 on: October 27, 2013, 04:46:43 PM »
Is he "A.C. Weisbecker" on YouTube?

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Anyone wanting to be amazed/aggravated by where our tax dollars go, try apollohoax.net then look up my thread, 'allancw.' Hundreds of man hours (and tax dollars), it appears, went into defending the official Apollo story against my little assault... Why would all these 'educated' professionals take the time and effort if they were not getting paid?

That's a very limited view on human motivations. Who's paying him to spread anti-Apollo propaganda, then? :D The KGB?

Also, "hundreds of hours"? Whut?

And seriously, prefacing one's shill accusations with about taxes?
Allan, if you're reading this: I probably pay more taxes than you.  But none of that is against getting paid to respond to you; I'm on my own time digging up information for you.

What will you do with the information?  You guaranteed it didn't exist.  Will you live up to your guarantee and try to learn something?  Or will you hide from it behind a paranoid fantasy that knowledgeable people who disagree with you can't do so honestly?

I hope it's the former, but you can't learn if you refuse to engage in a constructive manner.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #380 on: October 27, 2013, 08:15:12 PM »
Pretty much, I think CT's like allancw have such a single-minded and distorted world view and have so much personal self-esteem invested in their own "rightness" that  they simply cannot understand or conceive of why or how anyone else could be invested in opposing them.

There are many people who spend hours upon hours of their own personal time doing things for other people that they never get paid for. I was a Rugby Union referee for 15 years before a serious knee injury ended it for me. I gave up every weekend for six months each year to referee two to five matches over each Saturday and Sunday. No-one ever paid me to to this, I did it for the love of the game, and to return something to the game that I got from it as a player. I now advise and coach young referees and players, and help to administer an international referee's website and forum that assists new and young referees from all over the world. I must have spent tens or thousands of hours over many years and have never received any remuneration for it.

I am sure others here will have their own stories.
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline gillianren

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #381 on: October 27, 2013, 08:57:22 PM »
Heck, I'm not getting paid to parent, and it's a lot more work than picking apart someone's belief of what investigative journalism means.
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Offline smartcooky

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #382 on: October 28, 2013, 05:00:15 AM »
Heck, I'm not getting paid to parent, and it's a lot more work than picking apart someone's belief of what investigative journalism means.

Parenting is a job though, not just something you do in your spare time. Also, there is an investment in parenting that cannot be matched by simply having an interest in sports coaching/officiating, or being a space flight enthusiast.

The whole point here is that allencw seems happy enough to spend hours making up videos and regurgitating the same old, tired & lame ideas for debunking Apollo that we've all been hearing for years, yet cannot understand why anyone else would spend hours debunking him and not being paid. IMO, that is almost as big a failure of understanding as thinking Apollo was a hoax.
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline gwiz

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #383 on: October 28, 2013, 07:35:38 AM »
I am sure others here will have their own stories.
Quite.  I help to run the local museum, which is a completely volunteer organisation, and I also write a column for a spaceflight magazine, again for no reward other than my personal satisfaction.
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Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #384 on: October 28, 2013, 08:24:53 AM »
Hell, I spend more time watching Star Trek than I do on this forum. Does he think I'm paid to boost the fan numbers?
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Offline RAF

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #385 on: October 28, 2013, 10:50:40 AM »
What will you do with the information?  You guaranteed it didn't exist.  Will you live up to your guarantee and try to learn something?  Or will you hide from it behind a paranoid fantasy that knowledgeable people who disagree with you can't do so honestly?

What's really funny is that he, himself directs viewers of his youtube vid to come here to read this thread...and the main point of this thread is that A.C. made a guarantee, then went silent when proven wrong...

Just deliciously funny...:D

Offline gillianren

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #386 on: October 28, 2013, 12:13:12 PM »
Parenting is a job though, not just something you do in your spare time. Also, there is an investment in parenting that cannot be matched by simply having an interest in sports coaching/officiating, or being a space flight enthusiast.

Yes.  But it's still unpaid, and I did it on purpose.

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The whole point here is that allencw seems happy enough to spend hours making up videos and regurgitating the same old, tired & lame ideas for debunking Apollo that we've all been hearing for years, yet cannot understand why anyone else would spend hours debunking him and not being paid. IMO, that is almost as big a failure of understanding as thinking Apollo was a hoax.

And I don't think he has the slightest idea of how little time and effort it really took.  He didn't bring much new to the table; some of the responses might as well have been copy-paste.  Now, they weren't, and there were one or two places where something new had to be written out because we hadn't had that particular rant before, but I suspect the part that took the longest was finding specific references as demanded.  And if that took hundreds of man-hours, we've got some very slow readers.
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #387 on: October 28, 2013, 12:57:29 PM »
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Anyone wanting to be amazed/aggravated by where our tax dollars go, try apollohoax.net then look up my thread, 'allancw.' Hundreds of man hours (and tax dollars), it appears, went into defending the official Apollo story against my little assault... Why would all these 'educated' professionals take the time and effort if they were not getting paid?

An argument aimed purely at ego-reinforcement.  From the ebullient résumé posted here to the rack of self-published books (complete with Amazon review counts), what we have here in this poster is someone frantically desperate for any degree of approval or accolade.  This is exactly the sort of person who gets drawn into conspiracism as a way to lash out against the Establishment (which is typically blamed for that person's perceived lack of progress or recognition) and to wear the costume of erudition without actually achieving it.  Having presumed his critics are paid government shills, having failed utterly to establish any viable technical basis for a hoax, and having his ham-fisted rhetorical trap slammed shut on his own fingers, the only place he has left to backpedal is the coup-counting proposition.

He downplays his best effort as a "little assault" so that it doesn't seem a big deal that it was entirely overthrown, and that he patently doesn't know what he's talking about.  But in order to deploy that argument has to accept, at least in part, that his effort was unsuccessful.  He seems to admit that he was rebutted, but that it took enormous well-funded effort to do so.  He has shifted the goalposts again, this time to disconnect the skill of his argument from the very visible outcome.  With his ego thus insulated, he can quite happily direct others to the thread.  His claim is now that the government expends resources to stop him, so the fact that he was stopped becomes not an embarrassment but rather a premise to his new claim.

"Hundreds of hours" is quite the exaggeration.  I spent more time last week on Halloween costumes than in reading and posting here.  And I can point to hundreds of hours I've donated to local efforts, simply because I like what they do.  But it has to be that monumental an effort in order to feed Allan's effort.  One of many hidden subtexts is that he would have been successful in proving a hoax were it not for the all-out "government" effort to stop him.  Nevermind that he was never able to provide any actual evidence that any of the criticism against him was anything other than idle volunteerism -- just people doing what they do.  Nevermind that this isn't a high-traffic site.  It just has to be a well-funded government disinformation site, in his mind: that's the only explanation his ego will accept for failure.

Hence he greatly exaggerates the level of effort required to debunk his decades-old borrowed claims, then begs a further question that no one would expend that effort uncompensated.  From that he arrives at a dubious inference that it "must" be a shill site.  Yes, it's an inference.  Almost all conspiracy arguments, when faced with an abject inability to show what is the case, resort to trying to show what must be the case.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline sts60

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #388 on: October 28, 2013, 03:20:44 PM »
I am sure others here will have their own stories.
Quite.  I help to run the local museum, which is a completely volunteer organisation, and I also write a column for a spaceflight magazine, again for no reward other than my personal satisfaction.
For a while I was probably averaging a hundred hours a month doing volunteer fire/EMS.  While the county did provide some rather modest "attaboys" - a few hundred bucks a year - and you get a deduction on your state taxes, nobody I knew did it for such reasons.   A few hundred dollars a year doesn't motivate you enough to get out of bed at 3 AM to check somebody's smoke alarm or to bandage the bleeding groin of someone with HIV and hepatitis.

The funny thing was, when you show up, you can truthfully say, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Apollo 13
« Reply #389 on: October 28, 2013, 10:15:59 PM »
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Anyone wanting to be amazed/aggravated by where our tax dollars go, try apollohoax.net then look up my thread, 'allancw.' Hundreds of man hours (and tax dollars), it appears, went into defending the official Apollo story...

If Allancw only knew how far from the truth that is. The only money changing hands in the running of this website is the money I'm giving to my web host. It's only about $95 per year, but since I don't place any advertising on the site or charge for membership it means it's costing me money rather than making me any. And since I'm Canadian I've never paid taxes, received an income, or voted in the United States.

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against my little assault...

And that's all it was... a very little "assault". We've had young teenagers come to this forum and ask more thought provoking questions. Allancw, by comparison, is just a lazy mosquito with delusions of grandeur. He recycles the same old hoax claims we've seen for years, nothing new or special.

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Why would all these 'educated' professionals take the time and effort if they were not getting paid?

Yeah, why would anyone want to spend their free time talking to other people who share a common interest? No one ever does that willingly, right? I guess, by that logic, that means he's being paid to spread misinformation about Apollo.
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