Godwin's law and the moon hoax

[Luke Pemberton]

He's actually said that he wanted to wait on publishing his latest on Chang'e 3 because, get this...... he didn't want to tip off the Chinese that he was watching them.

I'm gobsmacked. I haven't paid much attention to the moon hoax for three years now as I have been extremely busy with a new job, but I can't work out whether to laugh or feel sympathetic for him. I'm edging on sympathy as there is clearly something awry if he genuinely believes the Chinese are concerned about him.

[ka9q]

I can never quite tell what they're trying to say with the von Braun/Nazi card. There's certainly plenty of room for different opinions on von Braun's moral culpability for his actions during the Nazi regime. But what that has to do with his ability to build working rockets completely escapes me.

I'd be tempted to say that having had all their other arguments busted they're simply pushing random emotional buttons in sheer desperation. But that would imply their other arguments made somewhat more sense -- and they don't.

[Eastsider]

He's actually said that he wanted to wait on publishing his latest on Chang'e 3 because, get this...... he didn't want to tip off the Chinese that he was watching them.

I'm gobsmacked. I haven't paid much attention to the moon hoax for three years now as I have been extremely busy with a new job, but I can't work out whether to laugh or feel sympathetic for him. I'm edging on sympathy as there is clearly something awry if he genuinely believes the Chinese are concerned about him.

I'm in the same boat. Methinks delusions of scientific grandeur exist in that brain.

I'm am amazed sometimes how that certain conspiracy theorist can just all of a sudden become an expert in any given field at any given time.  His work is like a wreck on the freeway and I sometimes can't help intellectually rubber-necking.
His "anonymous peer reviewer" video in particular had me staring at my monitor like a goat staring at thunder. There were far too many contradictions to calculate at once and my brain temporarily had a 1202 alarm.

[Luke Pemberton]

I can never quite tell what they're trying to say with the von Braun/Nazi card. There's certainly plenty of room for different opinions on von Braun's moral culpability for his actions during the Nazi regime. But what that has to do with his ability to build working rockets completely escapes me.

I'd be tempted to say that having had all their other arguments busted they're simply pushing random emotional buttons in sheer desperation. But that would imply their other arguments made somewhat more sense -- and they don't.

You've just said what I was trying to say, but I said it really badly. Despite my own moral compass being severely challenged by von Braun's involvement, the argument has nothing to do with the ability to build working rockets. It stinks of desperation. I really dislike having the argument invoked because I feel forced to defend von Braun's past rather than address dubious claims made against 400 000 people.

[Luke Pemberton]

I'm amazed sometimes how that certain conspiracy theorist can just all of a sudden become an expert in any given field at any given time.

Yup, experts in geology, radiation, orbital mechanics, flight control and communications, laser ranging, photo analysis, physics, mathematics, chemistry, biology, engineering (several branches of), manufacturing techniques, rocketry, stage productions, photography... any others want to add to the list, feel free. 

{EDIT: Correct error to spelling.}

[Tanalia]

...computers, medicine, weather...

[gillianren]

 . . . film special effects . . . .

[Glom]

I can never quite tell what they're trying to say with the von Braun/Nazi card. There's certainly plenty of room for different opinions on von Braun's moral culpability for his actions during the Nazi regime. But what that has to do with his ability to build working rockets completely escapes me.

I'd be tempted to say that having had all their other arguments busted they're simply pushing random emotional buttons in sheer desperation. But that would imply their other arguments made somewhat more sense -- and they don't.

Remember, there is never coherence with these guys. They don't think they have to make a self-consistent sets of arguments. As far as they're concerned, the only logic required is: something dodgy => hoax.

[smartcooky]

I can never quite tell what they're trying to say with the von Braun/Nazi card. There's certainly plenty of room for different opinions on von Braun's moral culpability for his actions during the Nazi regime. But what that has to do with his ability to build working rockets completely escapes me.

I'd be tempted to say that having had all their other arguments busted they're simply pushing random emotional buttons in sheer desperation. But that would imply their other arguments made somewhat more sense -- and they don't.

Remember, there is never coherence with these guys. They don't think they have to make a self-consistent sets of arguments. As far as they're concerned, the only logic required is: something dodgy => hoax.

It doesn't even have to be dodgy. "I don't understand therefore hoax" seem to suffice for many of them

[pzkpfw]

I just like how folks will hassle Nasa for having Braun, claim the Soviets were ahead of the U.S. anyway; and happily ignore that they got them a few German scientists (and V2's) also. (Yes, Korolev was Russian, but still, it all seems unbalanced.)

[raven]

I just like how folks will hassle Nasa for having Braun, claim the Soviets were ahead of the U.S. anyway; and happily ignore that they got them a few German scientists (and V2's) also. (Yes, Korolev was Russian, but still, it all seems unbalanced.)

People tend to be fairly ignorant about Soviet space efforts. Most people probably don't even know who Korolev even was.
One little fact I find funny is when conspiracy theorists make a big fuss about the camera tilting up by remote control on Apollo 17, when the Soviets were driving an entire rover on the moon 2 years before.

[Eastsider]

I can never quite tell what they're trying to say with the von Braun/Nazi card. There's certainly plenty of room for different opinions on von Braun's moral culpability for his actions during the Nazi regime. But what that has to do with his ability to build working rockets completely escapes me.

I'd be tempted to say that having had all their other arguments busted they're simply pushing random emotional buttons in sheer desperation. But that would imply their other arguments made somewhat more sense -- and they don't.

Remember, there is never coherence with these guys. They don't think they have to make a self-consistent sets of arguments. As far as they're concerned, the only logic required is: something dodgy => hoax.

It doesn't even have to be dodgy. "I don't understand therefore hoax" seem to suffice for many of them

Critical thinking is kryptonite to a hoaxer.

[Glom]

I can never quite tell what they're trying to say with the von Braun/Nazi card. There's certainly plenty of room for different opinions on von Braun's moral culpability for his actions during the Nazi regime. But what that has to do with his ability to build working rockets completely escapes me.

I'd be tempted to say that having had all their other arguments busted they're simply pushing random emotional buttons in sheer desperation. But that would imply their other arguments made somewhat more sense -- and they don't.

Remember, there is never coherence with these guys. They don't think they have to make a self-consistent sets of arguments. As far as they're concerned, the only logic required is: something dodgy => hoax.

It doesn't even have to be dodgy. "I don't understand therefore hoax" seem to suffice for many of them

Of course, when I saw dodgy I mean dodgy to them mostly since employing the services of someone who may have been a Nazi war criminal is the only thing that is dodgy in any form.

[JayUtah]

I can never quite tell what they're trying to say with the von Braun/Nazi card. There's certainly plenty of room for different opinions on von Braun's moral culpability for his actions during the Nazi regime. But what that has to do with his ability to build working rockets completely escapes me.

Because the theme of the hoax theory is evil, not competence.  Arguments that the space program wasn't competent to get men to the Moon is subsidiary to the argument that they were evil for faking it.  Ad hominem arguments against Wernher von Braun aren't meant to impeach his competence as an engineer, but rather to frame NASA in evil by emphasizing von Braun's Nazi past and NASA's blind eye toward it.

[Luke Pemberton]

But after watching the latest video this week from "Mr. Down-Under."

That video appears to have been taken down by a DMCA claim from Vincent McConnell again. It would appear that Vincent has claimed rights to a NASA photo so that Jarrah's video has been pulled. I never thought I would rush to the defence of Jarrah White, but Vincent really must stop making false claims against Jarrah.

While I loath and detest everything that Jarrah represents, and find most of his actions reprehensible, he has a right to free speech. It would be better if Jarrah was served his humble pie by those he attacks or by the rightful owners of the material he uses without permission. Sadly the former is unlikely because Jarrah is intellectually dishonest.

Vincent's attacks are only serving to give Jarrah more ammunition to fire across the bows of his 'opponents.'