Godwin's law and the moon hoax

[Luke Pemberton]

Has anyone had the experience of debating the moon hoax and seeing Godwin's law invoked?

I'm wondering just how many moon hoaxers believe the moon hoax simply because of Wernher von Braun and his relationship with the Nazis. It is an uneasy relationship for many, but do some moon hoax believers see the moon hoax as a platform to attack NASA's employment of an ex-Nazi?


{EDIT: Extra word removed}

[Allan F]

I've seen the nazi card pulled a lot of times, but not being the reason for hoax belief. It is just used as another "nail in the coffin" to discredit NASA. Not that the people using the nazi-argument has any real understanding of the nationalsocialism concept. Which was a ethnocentric stance - taken to the extreme.

[raven]

Quite a few times. "Von Braun was a Nazi, therefore MOON HOAX! ! !" is the general chain of 'logic' I see.

[Allan F]

Anybody run into a Flat-Earther? I just stumbled on one. Not even Sibrel, René or That Down-Under-Guy is that far gone.

[raven]

No, but I did run into a geocentricist. Eventually, I had to give up.

[smartcooky]

We regularly get the "Nazi-therefore-Conspiracy" argument at JREF. I usually give the culprit this....

[Eastsider]

Anybody run into a Flat-Earther? I just stumbled on one. Not even Sibrel, René or That Down-Under-Guy is that far gone.

I've seen a few flat-Earthers. They usually fall into the "rockets won't work in space" crowd.

But after watching the latest video this week from "Mr. Down-Under"..... I'm pretty sure he is that gone. He's actually said that he wanted to wait on publishing his latest on Chang'e 3 because, get this...... he didn't want to tip off the Chinese that he was watching them.

I've seen the Nazi connection invoked countless times. It's a tactic employed to get an emotional response. That same tactic was used in the first 20 minutes of Sibrel's video.

While I do not by any means condone Von Braun's WWII activities or labor methods, I do think he was absolutely necessary to the success of the US Space program and the advancement of space travel overall.

[smartcooky]

But after watching the latest video this week from "Mr. Down-Under"..... I'm pretty sure he is that gone. He's actually said that he wanted to wait on publishing his latest on Chang'e 3 because, get this...... he didn't want to tip off the Chinese that he was watching them.

That is bloody hilarious. Talk about being full of his own self-importance.

I doubt if anyone in the Chinese space programme has ever even heard of Jarrah White.

[Eastsider]

But after watching the latest video this week from "Mr. Down-Under"..... I'm pretty sure he is that gone. He's actually said that he wanted to wait on publishing his latest on Chang'e 3 because, get this...... he didn't want to tip off the Chinese that he was watching them.

That is bloody hilarious. Talk about being full of his own self-importance.

I doubt if anyone in the Chinese space programme has ever even heard of Jarrah White.

It actually gets better. At the end of the video, he says;  (paraphrasing here)

"Excuse me, I now have to go focus on solving the radiation problem and getting men on the moon for real."

[JayUtah]

But after watching the latest video this week from "Mr. Down-Under"..... I'm pretty sure he is that gone.

I was sure he was "that gone" when he first showed up, in around 2004.  His initial offering was ... distinctive.

[JayUtah]

"Excuse me, I now have to go focus on solving the radiation problem and getting men on the moon for real."

I hope he's learned a lot more about radiation since his disastrous fumbling-around at IMDb.  Or is he still trying to tell people that the foul-mouthed post the moderators deleted was "really " his brilliant rebuttal that I had to pull strings to have removed?

[JayUtah]

Has anyone had the experience of debating the moon hoax and seeing Godwin's law invoked?

I'm wondering just how many moon hoaxers believe the moon hoax simply because of Wernher von Braun and his relationship with the Nazis. It is an uneasy relationship for many, but do some moon hoax believers see the moon hoax as a platform to attack NASA's employment of an ex-Nazi?

{EDIT: Extra word removed}

I don't think mere invocation of Nazism is what Godwin's Law is about.  The gist of Godwin is that the proponent invokes Nazism as a red herring.  Since there is a legitimate connection between Apollo and Nazism, you have to look at the argument and see whether it invokes the actual Nazi connection through Von Braun and his colleagues, or whether it is the typical Godwinian flight off the handle.

I don't recall any true Godwin's Law invocations.  The guy who probably tries to get the most mileage out of the Nazi connection is filmmaker Aaron Ranen.  He doesn't go as far as claiming a hoax, but he makes a big to-do about anti-Semitism and anti-Black racism in NASA and casting vague aspersions.  And there might be a point:  look at how much of the Apollo project was set in the Deep South of the 1960s.  That's not a very un-racist environment, despite all one's noble efforts in other areas.

I've only run into one flat-Earther, and it was a short conversation since, when he learned my profession, he basically called me a bald-faced liar and fraud.

I review Neville Jones here:  http://www.clavius.org/bibjones.html . He's a geocentrist.

[Eastsider]

"Excuse me, I now have to go focus on solving the radiation problem and getting men on the moon for real."

I hope he's learned a lot more about radiation since his disastrous fumbling-around at IMDb.  Or is he still trying to tell people that the foul-mouthed post the moderators deleted was "really " his brilliant rebuttal that I had to pull strings to have removed?

Are you referring to the rebuttal where he seemed to suddenly not understand how numbers worked?

After having watched his last two videos and I'm pretty sure his infallible research methods and magnanimous, bordering on saintly, manners are still alive & well.

He now insinuates that the Chinese space program is faked but declares that the Chang'e 3 soil analysis proves the Apollo missions were faked. Can't have it both ways......

[Noldi400]

I don't recall any true Godwin's Law invocations.  The guy who probably tries to get the most mileage out of the Nazi connection is filmmaker Aaron Ranen.  He doesn't go as far as claiming a hoax, but he makes a big to-do about anti-Semitism and anti-Black racism in NASA and casting vague aspersions.  And there might be a point:  look at how much of the Apollo project was set in the Deep South of the 1960s.  That's not a very un-racist environment, despite all one's noble efforts in other areas.

One of the most (possibly unintentionally) telling points in Ranen's film, I thought, was that even NASA Technician Bob Tooley, an African-American and the target of open racism, was very clear that the Apollo project was genuine, even though, in his words, "I would be the first person to expose them people".

[Luke Pemberton]

I don't think mere invocation of Nazism is what Godwin's Law is about. The gist of Godwin is that the proponent invokes Nazism as a red herring.  Since there is a legitimate connection between Apollo and Nazism, you have to look at the argument and see whether it invokes the actual Nazi connection through Von Braun and his colleagues, or whether it is the typical Godwinian flight off the handle.

Thanks for clarifying Godwin's law. I usually encounter invocation of the Nazi connection through von Braun and his colleagues. This connection is used to attack those that 'defend' Apollo, but how quickly the other party resorts to general accusations of 'Nazi loving scum' or politely challenges my moral stance because of von Braun's labour methods depends.

I've only run into one flat-Earther, and it was a short conversation since, when he learned my profession, he basically called me a bald-faced liar and fraud.

You're used to that though?