Chandrayaan images of Apollo

[onebigmonkey]

I've been having some fun with Chandrayaan images recently picking out features in Apollo 15 images that can't be seen on Lunar Orbiter pre-Apollo views (see http://onebigmonkey.comoj.com/obm/landingsa15a.html)

I decided to turn my attention to other landing sites and managed to do this for Apollo 14:



The first image in the gif sequence is Lunar Orbiter, then Chandrayaan, then finally LRO.

Frankly I am suspicious that I am suffering from a severe case of pareidolia, an I'd like other people to repeat the exercise.

I downloaded the raw image for the file covering Apollo 14 from Chandrayaan's long term data archive:

http://www.issdc.gov.in/CHBrowse/jsp/include/search.jsp?search=normal

You need to register to see the menus.

The orbit in question is number 757, reference number TMC_NRN_20090110T154836362.

If you have registered you can request the high resolution raw image (1.1 Gb), which becomes a 5Gb IMG file.

Their site supplies the software to view the file, but it is shaky to say the least - you may know better software to use.

I extracted the file, then saved the relevant area of it so that Photoshop could see it. It needed flipping horizontally and converting down to 16 bit. I then changed the dpi to 600, adjusted the levels and applied some sharpening.

I am in the process of uploading the relevant image and software to my dropbox if anyone doesn't want to register with them thy ask for a lot of personal details) - I'll post the link when the files are ready.

Any thoughts?

[HeadLikeARock]

An interesting find. It's possible that the dark line is caused by the tracks, and the darkened area is right where Apollo 14 would be. It's difficult to come to any definite conclusion though.

Have you done any other studies comparing other sites? I did this one a while ago comparing Apollo 15 as viewed from Chandrayaan, Selene and LRO.

[onebigmonkey]

I've seen that one of yours and I commend you on your eyesight!

I believe Chandrayaan does definitely cover Apollo 12 and Apollo 15 in more detail, but the files either aren't shown on their browser or they are shown but not given a link. I did email them asking if the Apollo 15 one was publicly available (seeing as it's been used in conference presentations showing the rille) but have not had a reply.

They claim to have covered all the sites one way or another

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Pune/Apollo_landing_sites_mapped_by_Chandrayaan/articleshow/3961580.cms

but that article is unclear as to whether they were all covered by the terrain mapping camera.

If anyone wants to repeat the exercise all the files you need are now up

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pjal4g8yszenhsz/AACS_tCOr-yOwG_E1KAs3b9qa

The line that could be tracks does seem to extend towards Cone crater following the route that can be found on the LRO images of the same area.

I'm reluctant to claim it as a positive, but it's one hell of a coincidence!

[HeadLikeARock]

I've seen that one of yours and I commend you on your eyesight!

 

I know what you mean: I can't claim anything definitive in those images. However, I can see a dark 'splodge' in the Selene image right where the Apollo LM would be, and in both the Chandrayaan and Selene images I can see a darkened area corresponding to the ALSEP site. I'd describe this as more of a 'tantalising glimpse' than conclusive proof of anything. Certainly food for thought though!

The line that could be tracks does seem to extend towards Cone crater following the route that can be found on the LRO images of the same area.

I'm reluctant to claim it as a positive, but it's one hell of a coincidence!

Neither image is anything that would convert a dyed in the wool hoax believer I'm afraid...!

[HeadLikeARock]

I've been having some fun with Chandrayaan images recently picking out features in Apollo 15 images that can't be seen on Lunar Orbiter pre-Apollo views (see http://onebigmonkey.comoj.com/obm/landingsa15a.html)

PS is that your website? Very impressive work. I did some similar studies a while back, but not in as much depth.

North Crater on Apollo 16, image comparison between LRO and Apollo surface images.


Camelot Crater on Apollo 17, image comparison between LRO and Apollo surface images.

Feel free to use them. Or laugh at them

[AstroBrant]

I would like to do a three-way comparison from the A17 lunar ascent using the ascent film, LRO, and 1960's orbiter photos. As some of you know, Wunder-blunder showed the early orbiter pics alongside the ascent pics, but chose the latter from an altitude that was too high to see some of the smaller details which do _not_ show up in the 60's orbiter photos. (Just an oversight on his part, huh?)

Hopefully I can show conclusively that the Apollo footage shows some small details which simply do not show up in any earlier photography. Originally, I posted this thinking the Chandrayaan pics might help, but now I don't see how they would be useful in my project. One thing I need to do, though, is get the highest quality 60's orbiter photos I can. This is necessary in order to avoid the obvious argument from Wunder-blunder.

[ka9q]

You do know about the LOIRP, right? (Lunar Orbiter Image Recovery Project)

[ka9q]

Any thoughts?

Sure. The Indians are now in on the hoax!
 

[onebigmonkey]

I would like to do a three-way comparison from the A17 lunar ascent using the ascent film, LRO, and 1960's orbiter photos. As some of you know, Wunder-blunder showed the early orbiter pics alongside the ascent pics, but chose the latter from an altitude that was too high to see some of the smaller details which do _not_ show up in the 60's orbiter photos. (Just an oversight on his part, huh?)

Hopefully I can show conclusively that the Apollo footage shows some small details which simply do not show up in any earlier photography. Originally, I posted this thinking the Chandrayaan pics might help, but now I don't see how they would be useful in my project. One thing I need to do, though, is get the highest quality 60's orbiter photos I can. This is necessary in order to avoid the obvious argument from Wunder-blunder.

You might want to look at this then

http://onebigmonkey.comoj.com/obm/landingsa17.html

In some threads I've even produced the ascent frame shown in my actual paper copy of the Preliminary Science Report to prove that the Apollo images are actually contemporary, but even that isn't enough for some people.

I've done the same for all of them

http://onebigmonkey.comoj.com/obm/landings.html

As far as I can tell Chandrayaan doesn't cover any of the other landing sites in as great a detail as Hadley Rille - at least as far as the current publicly available ones are concerned. China's Chang'e-2 has some usable imagery of Taurus-Littrow that I've incorporated into the one above.

My general finding is that while the overall quality of Lunar Orbiter images is extremely good, once you get down to the small details they aren't as good as the LRO, and they certainly don't show all of the fine details visible in Apollo imagery - even the relatively poor quality TV broadcasts.

The usual reponse to pointing out that Orbiter views are inadequate in terms of producing a fake moon set is some sort of sooper-seekrit speshul satellite that no-one knows about, or that the really good Oriber images are heavily censored blah blah etc etc.

[raven]

I've heard it claimed the Chang'e 2 probe was able to capture, albeit with less resolution than LRO,  Apollo remnants, but I have yet to see any images that confirm that.

[onebigmonkey]

I've often wondered if that was a case of, ahem, 'Chinese whispers' and things getting lost in translation.

Chandrayaan likewisr claim to have photographed Apollo sites. Technically they did, in the same way that my phone has photographed the atomic structure of molecules making up my cat.

[HeadLikeARock]

I've heard it claimed the Chang'e 2 probe was able to capture, albeit with less resolution than LRO,  Apollo remnants, but I have yet to see any images that confirm that.

There was an early claim that was patently false that they had captured tracks made by Apollo 15, but they didn't follow the known paths of the EVAs - it was just the way the craters appeared.

Actually, I think that may have been Chandraayan...

[onebigmonkey]

While we're on the subject of views from lunar orbit, and just for fun here's something I've just added to my site.

It's the last resolvable image from the Apollo 12 16mm descent footage compared with another 16mm shot of Pete Conrad collecting the contingency sample and an LRO view of the same area.

The crater is the one against which they planted the flag

[Dr.Acula]

I visited your site, onebigmonkey.

I'm very impressed. You've done a very great job. Thank you.

[onebigmonkey]

I visited your site, onebigmonkey.

I'm very impressed. You've done a very great job. Thank you.

Thank you

I'm now working on the last few moments of the Apollo 11 16mm footage, and can so far resolve craters up to the last 10 seconds or so that match the LRO images.