Schmitt's bag drop again

[AstroBrant]

Someone has brought that up and I decided to analyze it. Using MichaelStMark's video I found that the bag did not fall at the expected speed.

It was closer to lunar free-fall than earth free-fall, anyway. I'm thinking it may have been propelled downward, but it isn't clear. Another remote possibility is that MStM sped up the video, but it does look like the right speed.

Does anybody know whereabouts that happened in Apollo 17? I really don't want to have to scan through so much video looking for it. MStM has disabled comments and gives no information about where and when this occurred.

[dwight]

Hi AstroBrant, a quick look at the clip which hasn't been changed except for the notated audio shifting in the second part) two things strike me as blatantly obvious:

1. Schmitt is head/helmet is turned to his right as he is walking and where on the side the bag is located.
2. The bag appears to fall and then first bounce forward (like a rugby football does) and then falls back.

This says to me Schmitt saw the bag easily and clearly.

This occured at Geology Station 8.

Here are the relevant times from the ALSJ:

167:27:58 Schmitt: Damn.

167:28:00 Parker: You got another one dropped there, Gene. Jack got it.

167:28:04 Cernan: Another one?

167:28:06 Parker: Jack's getting it.

167:28:07 Cernan: Okay. (Pause)

[ka9q]

Another point that the hoaxers have probably forgotten is that you can turn your head quite a bit inside those helmets. With a reflective visor blocking your view of the face inside, you get a strong illusion that the astronaut must be looking directly forward in whatever direction his LEVA is facing. But you really can't tell.

[Peter B]

Someone has brought that up and I decided to analyze it. Using MichaelStMark's video I found that the bag did not fall at the expected speed.

It was closer to lunar free-fall than earth free-fall, anyway. I'm thinking it may have been propelled downward, but it isn't clear. Another remote possibility is that MStM sped up the video, but it does look like the right speed.

Given the way the bags were bouncing up and down it isn't surprising to me that one falling to the ground might do so at slightly faster than free-fall speed. If it happened to come loose at a point in the bouncing cycle when it was falling down, then it started its fall with a velocity > 0.

It's like the old shaking a loose bandaid off your hand - when it comes loose it's going to reach the floor faster than an identical bandaid you just drop from your hand.

Does anybody know whereabouts that happened in Apollo 17? I really don't want to have to scan through so much video looking for it. MStM has disabled comments and gives no information about where and when this occurred.

:-)

Wouldn't want to make it too easy to debunk, hey?

[Peter B]

Another point that the hoaxers have probably forgotten is that you can turn your head quite a bit inside those helmets. With a reflective visor blocking your view of the face inside, you get a strong illusion that the astronaut must be looking directly forward in whatever direction his LEVA is facing. But you really can't tell.

AS11-40-5875 is a good example of this. Low res versions of this photo show Aldrin facing the flag (or at least facing off to the left). But if you look at high res versions you can see that Aldrin has turned his head to his left, so that he's looking straight at Armstrong as he takes the photo.

I wouldn't like to say for sure what Aldrin (or Schmitt) could see in their suits, but it's something which could be fairly easily tested. Which IMHO makes it dangerous for a hoax believer to call the footage a show-stopper.

[JayUtah]

The only expectation for free-fall behavior is when the object's release (i.e., initial) conditions are pure.  If we learned anything studying the 9/11 videos, it's that you can measure a whole spectrum of ballistic speeds in the field, all of which are putatively free fall.

[Andromeda]

Don't let Heiwa hear you say that...

[HeadLikeARock]

If anyone's interested I did a quick analysis of the bag drop a few years ago on the Education Forum. Duane Daman claimed he had some Youtubers who could mathematically prove it wasn't filmed on the moon - turns out they couldn't. Fancy that.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10575&page=4#entry114550

Feel free to point out any glaring errors

[AstroBrant]

This occured at Geology Station 8.

Here are the relevant times from the ALSJ:

167:27:58 Schmitt: Damn.

167:28:00 Parker: You got another one dropped there, Gene. Jack got it.

Thank you so much for that, Dwight!
I timed it. The MStM video is at correct speed. I kind of thought it would be, but I had to check just the same.

[dwight]

You are very welcome, AstroBrant. Glad to help out.

[AstroBrant]

If anyone's interested I did a quick analysis of the bag drop a few years ago on the Education Forum. Duane Daman claimed he had some Youtubers who could mathematically prove it wasn't filmed on the moon - turns out they couldn't. Fancy that.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10575&page=4#entry114550

Feel free to point out any glaring errors

Thanks for the link. I read through it and there were good points which are helpful.