JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots

[gillianren]

All this time and 31 pages of posts proclaiming a conspiracy and you don't have a hypothesis about what actually happened?  Much less a defensible hypothesis that  includes an explanation of where the shooter(s) were.   

Typical conspiracist thinking, alas.  "I don't know what's right, just that the Official Story (TM) is wrong!"  Usually with ridiculously poor research.

[Jason Thompson]

I would like to study more WC testimonies before I attempt to clarify 1 shooter 3 or 4 shots.

Why do you need to study testimonies to address the issue that one shooter could not possibly have shot Kennedy from in front and Connally in the back?

And again I note your ongoing refusal to address the duplication of the two shots and their effects.

[Echnaton]

Typical conspiracist thinking, alas. 

Alas yes, but it is fun to sometimes write it as is I were surprised.  Or should I say "shocked."

[profmunkin]

shaw trial
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carrshaw.htm
Richard Randolf Carr  WW2 - Ranger
"BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: As the result of the conversations with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, what did you do?
A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
A: No, sir."

He was on top of court house overlooking Dealey Plaza
4 shots
Bham...Bham.Bham.Bham
His opinion, automatic rifle fire
Coming from picket fence on top of grassy knoll
saw bullet "knock up grass", presumably by Mary Moorman
Hearsay - FBI told him to shut his mouth.

[profmunkin]

I would like to study more WC testimonies before I attempt to clarify 1 shooter 3 or 4 shots.

Why do you need to study testimonies to address the issue that one shooter could not possibly have shot Kennedy from in front and Connally in the back?

And again I note your ongoing refusal to address the duplication of the two shots and their effects.

Hey
I am looking at the evidence in testimonies from the WC.
Should what WC says happened in Dealey Plaza be in accord with what can be corroborated by the witnesses?

I think it may well be possible to illustrate how and I intend to prove it when I am ready. This is not a stall it is getting my ducks in a row.

[Chew]

shaw trial
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carrshaw.htm
Richard Randolf Carr  WW2 - Ranger
"BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: As the result of the conversations with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, what did you do?
A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
A: No, sir."

The Shaw trial was notable for the number of kooks Garrison put on the stand if nothing else. Carr was no exception.

Q: Mr. Carr, have you ever heard rifle fire before?
A: I have.
Q: Where?
A: I was a member of the Fifth Ranger Battalion in World War II. I qualified as an expert with a bolt-action rifle which is called a thirty aught six, in the Army it is a 30-caliber rifle, since that time I was -- I used a 225 Winchester, I hunted with a 70 millimeter Remington, I have also loaded my own ammunition, which I do until this day.
Q: Were you ever wounded in action?
A: Yes.
Q: How many times?
MR. DYMOND: I object to that as irrelevant.
THE COURT: That is irrelevant. Why don't you tender Mr. Carr over to the Defense as an expert, at least in the field that he knows a rifle shot when he hears it?
MR. GARRISON: One other question.
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: Have you ever heard rifle fire in combat?
A: Yes, I have heard rifle fire in combat.
Q: On how many occasions?
A: I was in -- I landed in Casablanca, I went through North Africa, I was in two major offensives in Africa, and from there I went to Anzio beachhead and my battalion was annihilated, 13 men left in the Fifth Ranger Battalion.
Q: How many of these places did you hear rifle fire?
A: In all of them I heard rifle fire, sir.
MR. GARRISON: We tender the witness.

The Fifth Ranger Battalion stood up in September of 43 and first saw action at D-Day. Operation Torch, the Allied landings at Casablanca, happened before the Fifth Rangers existed and the Fifth Rangers were not in the order of battle for Operation Shingle, the Allied invasion of Italy.

He was on top of court house overlooking Dealey Plaza
4 shots
Bham...Bham.Bham.Bham
His opinion, automatic rifle fire

Which absolutely no one else heard.

Coming from picket fence on top of grassy knoll
saw bullet "knock up grass", presumably by Mary Moorman

From 250 feet away? Are you serious? Maybe you should do a little credibility checking before you blindly post some yahoo's testimony.

[gillianren]

Yeah, rule one of JFK conspiracism is that, if Garrison said it's true, triple-check it.  Garrison was not the biggest kook in the field, but he was the most high-profile kook.

[Chew]

Hey, prof! Do the mysterious deaths next! Then we can talk about how to properly do statistics.

[profmunkin]

Mrs Baker testimony / standing in front of TSBD / shots came from GK / railyard area

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker.htm
Here talking about shot #1 bullet ricocheting off of street behind limo...
"Mr. LIEBELER. Where was the thing that you saw hit the street in relation to the President's car? I mean, was it in front of the car, behind his car, by the side of his car or was it close to the car?
Mrs. BAKER. I thought it was--well--behind it. "

And the FBI report said:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/rachley.htm
"looking in that direction after the first shot she saw something bounce from the roadway in front of the Presidential automobile and now presumes it was a bullet bouncing off the pavement"

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm
Mr Skelton told the FBI this and testified, disturbance on street after 1st shot behind JFK limo on drivers side.
Mr. BALL. You saw some smoke come off of the cement?
Mr. SKELTON. Yes."


Proposing that this is shot #1 that hit JFK in the throat and exited from his back, then seen ricocheting off of the street behind the limo.

[Chew]

Mrs Baker testimony / standing in front of TSBD / shots came from GK / railyard area

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any idea where they were coming from?
Mrs. BAKER. Well, the way it sounded--it sounded like it was coming from-- there was a railroad track that runs behind the building--there directly behind the building and around, so I guess it would be by the underpass, the triple underpass, and there is a railroad track that runs back out there and there was a train that looked like a circus train as well as I can remember now, back there, and we all ran to the plaza--the little thing there I guess you call it a plaza--back behind there this other girl and I almost ran back over there and looked and we didn't see anything.
Mr. LIEBELER. When you say the plaza, you mean Dealey Plaza, the area that lies between Elm Street and this little street that runs by the Texas School Book Depository Building; is that correct? Is that what you mean?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. After you heard the shots, you ran down the little street that runs in front of the School Book Depository?
Mrs. BAKER. Along the grass.
Mr. LIEBELER. Along the grass--alongside there, running toward the triple underpass where Elm Street goes, but you were actually running down the little street or alongside the street on the grass, alongside the street that runs right in front of the Texas School Book Depository?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you say there are some railroad tracks back in there; is that right?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Immediately behind Dealey Plaza away from Elm Street?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And is that where you thought the shots came from?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And when you went down there and looked, did you see anybody at all?
Mrs. BAKER Just a policeman and several people were down there around the tracks working.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you didn't see anybody you thought might have been the assassin?
Mrs. BAKER. No, sir.

That damn elusive assassin! So many witnesses thought shots came from the railroad yard but when they run to the railroad yard all they see is the people who work there but no assassin!

How many more witnesses are you going to mention who said they went to the area but didn't see anything?

[profmunkin]

How many more witnesses are you going to mention who said they went to the area but didn't see anything?

What do you expect them to have seen?
Ed Hoffman reported watching the 2 assassins, said one was dressed in cops uniform the other was in a railway uniform, one dismantled the gun put in in a tool box and they just both walked away in separate directions.
What are you expecting a shoot out or someone standing there with his hands up.
Professional assassins I am sure also plan their getaway.

[Chew]

What do you expect them to have seen?

The assassin, of course!

Ed Hoffman reported watching the 2 assassins, said one was dressed in cops uniform the other was in a railway uniform, one dismantled the gun put in in a tool box and they just both walked away in separate directions.

Hoffman's account has repeatedly and thoroughly been debunked.

What are you expecting a shoot out or someone standing there with his hands up.
Professional assassins I am sure also plan their getaway.

Professional assassins also don't plan hits in front of 500 people with cameras, a score of police, and a dozen Secret Service agents.

[profmunkin]

Professional assassins also don't plan hits in front of 500 people with cameras, a score of police, and a dozen Secret Service agents.

Obviously, your wrong.
And who debunked Hoffman?

[Chew]

Professional assassins also don't plan hits in front of 500 people with cameras, a score of police, and a dozen Secret Service agents.

Obviously, your wrong.

Am I? Do you have an example of a professional assassin killing someone in front of a large crowd?

[profmunkin]

Am I? Do you have an example of a professional assassin killing someone in front of a large crowd?

Obviously by your question no one has ever been killed by a professional assassin while present in front of a large crowd.
How many people are necessary to qualify as a "large crowd"?

How about LBJ telling a lie, to set scene for murder. He tells the American Public that the United States Navy was attacked while in neutral waters in the bay of Tonkin by North Vietnamese torpedo boats and asks for war. This lie is responsible for over 2,000,000 deaths or people assassinated in front of our eyes, and most people never figured out who was doing the killing in time to stop these deaths. Most people still have no clue to this day...at all.