JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots

[Chew]

And why Oswald lied about owning a rifle? And why Marina almost fainted when a cop picked up the blanket where the rifle was supposed to be and the rifle wasn't there? 

[ka9q]

If witnesses are saying the shots came from a position that is impossible then we know those witnesses are wrong. Now, they were either lying or they were fooled by the echoes.

They could easily have been fooled by something other than the echoes, namely the shock wave from the bullet traveling at about Mach 2. For many if not most observers this is the first and loudest sound they hear, followed by the expanding spent gases from the muzzle as the bullet leaves (the muzzle blast) and possibly the sound of the bullet impacting its target. These sounds all come from different directions at different times. I'd only expect people who are already familiar with rifles to even recognize them as rifle fire.

And that's exactly what happened; John Connally and Officer Baker, both avid hunters, immediately recognized the first shot as rifle fire while most witnesses thought it was a motorcycle backfire or kids throwing firecrackers into the street. Agent Greer, driving the Presidential limo, thought he might have had a blowout, so he tapped the brakes. That turned out to have been a bad idea, and by all accounts it bothered Greer very greatly.

You might expect Secret Service agents would also recognize the sounds of rifle fire, but I point out that they're generally armed (and practice) with handguns that shoot subsonic bullets. They don't produce the crack of a supersonic rifle bullet.

[ka9q]

And why Oswald lied about owning a rifle? And why Marina almost fainted when a cop picked up the blanket where the rifle was supposed to be and the rifle wasn't there?

Or why Marina, who was outside at Ruth Paine's hanging up clothes to dry when she first heard that the President had been shot, was sufficiently concerned about Lee being involved that she went into the garage to look for the rifle. She saw the blanket on the floor, apparently undisturbed, but didn't look inside. Only later, when the police arrived and picked up the blanket did she realize the rifle had actually been missing.

Her contemporary actions and statements make it crystal clear that Marina knew that her husband was guilty. So how did she come to later side with the conspiracists? Only she really knows the answer, but I can make a good guess. If any one individual on the earth would have reason to feel guilty for not having prevented the assassination (other than Lee Harvey Oswald himself, of course) it is Marina Oswald. She was fully aware that her husband had already attempted one politically-motivated murder and was actually sorry that he had failed. I'm sure she quickly realized after the assassination that if she had turned Lee in for the Walker shooting, JFK would have survived Dallas.

That must have weighed heavily on her for many years, and the only way out would be proof that Lee had not actually murdered JFK. So when the conspiracists began to come out of the woodwork and she became a logical target of their 'research', I'm sure she was more than a little sympathetic to their viewpoint.

[Jason Thompson]

Again please list those witnesses that claimed they heard echos?

Firstly, I have already given you one.

Secondly, perhaps you can tell us exactly how you expect the sound of a gunshot echo to differ from the sound of a gunshot?

Thirdly, perhaps you'd care to explain my own personal experience, already recounted, of hearing the shots from a single location coming from various directions depending on where I was relative to the shooter?

Fourthly, perhaps you could explain how Connally and Kennedy were shot in the back by someone in front of them?

Fifthly, perhaps you would care to explain your contention that Kennedy was shot in frame 189 of the Zapruder film, despite his total lack of reaction to it.

What evidence do you have, that discerning the direction of shots in Dealey Plaza would cause the majority of a given population to have a distorted but unified experience all recognizing the direction to be from the exact same location.

That's physics, but I don't expect you to actually understand that, despite your profession to having multiple science degrees in your previous incarnation on the old board.

[Jason Thompson]

Can we agree that the depiction shown in attached image has the bullet entering the back above the throat wound whereas it should be about 5 inches lower then the neck wound. Close to where the arrow is pointing.

We can agree that the depiction is inaccurate, but we cannot agree that the arrow is pointing anywhere close to 5 inches below the throat wound. You have some seriously distorted ideas about physiology if you think the third thoracic vertebra is anywhere close to 5 inches below the larynx.

[profmunkin]

We can agree that the depiction is inaccurate, but we cannot agree that the arrow is pointing anywhere close to 5 inches below the throat wound. You have some seriously distorted ideas about physiology if you think the third thoracic vertebra is anywhere close to 5 inches below the larynx.

5 -1/2 inches below the collar of the shirt.
Picture attached, Specter is illustrating the bullet path, the chalk mark on the back of the jacket is well below the neck wound.

[profmunkin]

Location of bullet hole in jacket matched position of bullet hole on shirt, per JFK Lancer

[profmunkin]

This depiction shows the third thoracic vertebra about where I depicted it, maybe even lower.
Certainly well below the location of the adams apple.

[Chew]

As I already told you:

The 3rd thoracic vertebra canard comes from RADM Burkley who estimated the location of the bullet wound in JFK's back for a death certificate. The autopsy report said it entered above the scapula. The bullet exited well below the Adam's Apple.

His jacket was bunched.
Was Kennedy's Jacket Bunched When He Was Hit in the Back?

[profmunkin]

The amazing thing to me is "they" didn't hide the evidence, it is right in front of you.
"They" just ignored evidence so that an alternate reality could be contrived.

[profmunkin]

His jacket was bunched.

LoL

The jacket was bunched.
The shirt was bunched.
JFK was hunched.
JFK was leaning forward
Connally moved over a foot
JFK seat was at the highest position

"Mr. DULLES. Could I ask one question in response to your statement that the back seat was in its lowest position at the time of the assassination? How do you know that?
Mr. KELLEY. That is a result of questioning of the people who took the car, the driver who took the car from the hospital to the plane. This was one of the drivers of the Presidential car. There was nobody who touched the car until it got back to the White House garage. It was in his custody all the time. And he did not move it." myth busted


JFK was hit in his back, not his neck, no matter how bunched and hunched you can imagine JFK was, it was not possible for a bullet to exit the throat.

[LunarOrbit]

The jacket was bunched.
The shirt was bunched.
JFK was hunched.
JFK was leaning forward
Connally moved over a foot

Which is all far more plausible than your grassy knoll gunman.

JFK seat was at the highest position

"Mr. DULLES. Could I ask one question in response to your statement that the back seat was in its lowest position at the time of the assassination? How do you know that?
Mr. KELLEY. That is a result of questioning of the people who took the car, the driver who took the car from the hospital to the plane. This was one of the drivers of the Presidential car. There was nobody who touched the car until it got back to the White House garage. It was in his custody all the time. And he did not move it." myth busted

How does this help your argument? If Kennedy was lower than the WC says then any shot that hit him in the back (whether it was from TSBD or the grassy knoll) would have to go through the back of the car. So it doesn't help you much at all, does it? Or are you next going to claim that the assassin was inside the trunk of the car?

JFK was hit in his back, not his neck, no matter how bunched and hunched you can imagine JFK was, it was not possible for a bullet to exit the throat.

Yes, he was hit in his back. So explain how that is possible if the shooter was in front of the victims on the grassy knoll. It can't be done. I'll keep repeating it until it sinks into your thick skull.

[LunarOrbit]

Does that rod point to the grassy knoll, Profmunkin?

[Chew]

His jacket was bunched.

LoL

The jacket was bunched.

If you cannot see the bunching for yourself in the photos then I'm afraid you are so deluded you are beyond help.

The shirt was bunched.
JFK was hunched.
JFK was leaning forward

Don't forgot that Elm street sloped down at about a 3° angle.

Connally moved over a foot

No, it was 6 inches, as Kelley, the Secret Service inspector you just quoted said in his testimony. Yet another example of your cherry-picking your quotes instead of considering all of the information and then weighing it.

Plus there are pictures: http://www.pinkpillbox.com/images/interiorjfklimo.jpg

JFK seat was at the highest position

Do you have a citation for who exactly claimed the seat was in its highest position?

Do you even know what the highest position looks like? Only an idiot would claim it was raised to its highest position. This is what it looks like in its highest position:

http://home.comcast.net/~the_puzzle_palace/KN-C18066.jpg

"Mr. DULLES. Could I ask one question in response to your statement that the back seat was in its lowest position at the time of the assassination? How do you know that?
Mr. KELLEY. That is a result of questioning of the people who took the car, the driver who took the car from the hospital to the plane. This was one of the drivers of the Presidential car. There was nobody who touched the car until it got back to the White House garage. It was in his custody all the time. And he did not move it." myth busted


JFK was hit in his back, not his neck, no matter how bunched and hunched you can imagine JFK was, it was not possible for a bullet to exit the throat.

You are basing your back wound position on a death certificate, not on the autopsy report and certainly not on the autopsy photos.

[profmunkin]

Does that rod point to the grassy knoll, Profmunkin?

It does not point to the location of back wound, this we can know without doubt .