JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots

[profmunkin]

The back wound is at the 3rd thoracic vertebra, right of his spinal column.
The location of this wound is well below the neck wound

If, and only if, you assume without any justification whatsoever that he is sitting up straight. Kennedy was demonstrably not sitting up straight in the limo, and the third thoracic vertebra is not so far below the throat exit wound that simply slouching cannot place it slightly above.

Jason I can't even imagine how slouched over JFK would have to be to get his neck wound location below the location of the 3rd thoracic vertebra, I think he would have to be almost in a prone position.

Jason, if you view the autopsy photos you will know that the back wound is well below the neck wound, and in no way could it be connected to a bullet traveling at a downward angle then exiting from a higher location in JFK's body.
You will also see that the WC artist's conceptual drawing is completely contrived and in no way resembles the actual location of the wound in JFK's back, someone opinioned that the artist conceptual drawing of the wound was located higher by almost a foot, I have not attempted to measure it but the point is the artist conceptual drawing in no way comes even remotely close to the actual location of the back wound. The back wound location had to be contrived by the WC in order for the single bullet theory to work. pure fiction.

Don't be confused by contrived red herring fiction about coat riding up and JFK slouching. Where did the bullet enter JFK's body? Right of the spine at the third thoracic vertebra. High middle back, adjacent to shoulder blade. Well below the front neck wound by about 6 inches.

If you reach back you may be able to feel your shoulder blade tip near your spine, that is about the location, it is about 5-6 inches below the adams apple (JFK top of tie was nicked) , check it out for yourself.

Also keep in mind the bullet was supposedly also traveling at a downward angle from the 6th floor TSBD.
If bullet had exited it most probably would have come out several inches below the entry wound not above it, somehere lower in the chest or below the rib cage.

Comments about picture will be it is not drawn to scale - ya point conceded.
but it is close, you can see the relative positions of the wounds on this JFK autopsy fact sheet.
Also location of wounds corresponds to the autopsy photos.
Back wound well below the throat wound.

I hope this helps.
 

[Jason Thompson]

Jason I can't even imagine how slouched over JFK would have to be to get his neck wound location below the location of the 3rd thoracic vertebra, I think he would have to be almost in a prone position.

Well, have you even tried to work this out?

Here's a hint:



That's about a decent slouching angle, and far from prone. The third thoracic vertebra is highlighted, as are the locations of the entry and exit wounds. The image on the left shows an upright person, and indeed the exit wound is above the entrance wound. The second image shows a slouching person (though still does not account for the compression of the neck and change of angle as is actually seen in a slouch), and suddenly the trajectory is downwards...

Don't be confused by contrived red herring fiction about coat riding up and JFK slouching.

Contrived red herring fiction? You can see that JFK is not sitting up straight in the limo in every bit of film. He is slouched forward, and his coat is definitely ridden up around his neck as would be expected.

If you reach back you may be able to feel your shoulder blade tip near your spine, that is about the location, it is about 5-6 inches below the adams apple (JFK top of tie was nicked) , check it out for yourself.

I have. I also happen to be more qualified in the area of anatomy and biology than you are. The third thoracic vertebra is nowhere near six inches below the adam's apple.

And once again your refusal to acknowledge that the path of the single bullet has been DUPLICATED is noted, and an explanation still awaited.

[profmunkin]

There is nothing on this page that addresses the issue of deformation of bullets when shattering bones.

That page refers to shooting bullets through blocks of wood and notes their relative lack of deformation, and refers to shooting cadavers with the bullets. Do you want to suggest that not one shot through a cadaver went through a bone?

Jason there is no place on this page or I will venture any page you can find that shows a bullet that has maintained it's 'pristine' shape after traversing through a human bone, it will mushroom and deform.
They give you a red herring by showing you bullets shot "with" the grain of various woods, which has noting in this world to do with impact against a bone. Let's see the bullet that was shot against the grain!

They tell you bullets can pass through multiple people, but show you no examples of how much the bullet would become deformed and fragmented.
The bullet is made of lead, with a thin casing of copper, it deforms on impact, it deforms and can fragment just traversing through gelatin.

Figure this out.

[ka9q]

Jason I can't even imagine how slouched over JFK would have to be to get his neck wound location below the location of the 3rd thoracic vertebra, I think he would have to be almost in a prone position.

You could save yourself (and us) a lot of trouble if you'd look at the Dale Myers computer model. Everything lines up -- where JBC and JFK were sitting, their body positions, the straight line trajectory between the two (and connecting their wounds) all the way back to Oswald's window. Perfectly.

Of course, this isn't what you want to hear. Myers probably didn't either.  He's a former conspiracy investigator who, once he gathered and understood the facts, realized Oswald did it all along.

[ka9q]

The bullet is made of lead, with a thin casing of copper, it deforms on impact, it deforms and can fragment just traversing through gelatin.

Do you understand the significance of the part I have emboldened?

[profmunkin]

Typical -
Humes was not a qualified forencic pathologist to do the autopsy, you have no argument. now just let it go.

[Chew]

The 3rd thoracic vertebra canard comes from RADM Burkley who estimated the location of the bullet wound in JFK's back for a death certificate. The autopsy report said it entered above the scapula. The bullet exited well below the Adam's Apple.

[ka9q]

Typical -
Humes was not a qualified forencic pathologist to do the autopsy, you have no argument. now just let it go.

Typical. Neither were the emergency room physicians. In fact, they weren't even pathologists.

Humes was not the only doctor working on the autopsy, you know. Does the name Pierre Finck ring a bell? How about J. Thorton Boswell.

LHO shot JFK and JBC, then murdered JD Tippet. He did so alone. It's been almost 50 years, and as Oswald's own brother Robert has said numerous times, it's fine to take a second look at things, but at some point you just have to put it to rest. Or, as you say, just let it go.

[Jason Thompson]

Jason there is no place on this page or I will venture any page you can find that shows a bullet that has maintained it's 'pristine' shape after traversing through a human bone, it will mushroom and deform.

The 'pristine' bullet hasn't maintained its pristine condition! It hit the bone sidewways, not head on, and deformed as would be expected.

Again, your refusal to acknowledge that the whole thing has been duplicated is noted and an explanation still awaited.

The bullet is made of lead, with a thin casing of copper, it deforms on impact, it deforms and can fragment just traversing through gelatin.

Yes indeed. And the 'pristine' bullet is also deformed.

Figure this out.

I don't need to. IT'S BEEN DONE!

[Jason Thompson]

Humes was not a qualified forencic pathologist to do the autopsy, you have no argument. now just let it go.

You really have no logical faculties at all, do you? Explain why you dismiss him due to a lack of being a forensic pathologist and yet take the word of the ER doctors who were not any kind of pathologist. If you want to argue qualifications, Humes was more qualified to make a judgement about the entry and exit wounds than any of the doctors who operated on JFK in the ER.

[profmunkin]

Jason I can't even imagine how slouched over JFK would have to be to get his neck wound location below the location of the 3rd thoracic vertebra, I think he would have to be almost in a prone position.

Well, have you even tried to work this out?

Way cool - thanks for the images.
I can't help myself here...Ya Jason that is exactly how President Kennedy was slouching in that limo, I remember seeing him leaning forward probably picking some lint off of his socks when he was struck.

Are you serious?

Give your self a brake and examine the evidence.
Just compare the artist conceptual drawing the WC had to use to make the angles work, your not even close with your bent over figure... although very cool.
The WC had to place the back shot high on the neck to make the single bullet theory work.

And you brushed right by the FACT that the WC had to have an artist produce a contrived conceptual drawing to even begin to make single bullet theory work.  And that the conceptual drawing in no way represents the actual locations of the wounds.

Does the conceptual drawing show the back wound located at the third thoracic vertebra?
|||Then - Why isn't it correct?|||

stop thinking and see
 

[ka9q]

If you want to argue qualifications, Humes was more qualified to make a judgement about the entry and exit wounds than any of the doctors who operated on JFK in the ER.

Especially given that Hume had two assistants, both medical doctors and pathologists. And one was also Chief of the Wound Ballistics Pathology Branch at Walter Reed Medical Center. That tells me the guy knew at least a little about what bullets do in the human body, don't you think?

[ka9q]

Are you serious?

Yes, we are. And yes, we've examined the evidence. Quite a bit more closely than you have, it would seem.

Seen the Dale Myers stuff yet? I strongly suggest you do, as he directly addresses the geometry of the "single bullet fact" as he calls it. And no, JFK was not prone.

The url is http://www.jfkfiles.com/

Please.

[Jason Thompson]

I can't help myself here...Ya Jason that is exactly how President Kennedy was slouching in that limo, I remember seeing him leaning forward probably picking some lint off of his socks when he was struck.

Of course it wasn't exactly how Kennedy was slouching. I already said that all I did was tilt a picture. A slouched person would have his head upright of course, but I lack the image manipulation skills necessary to knock that up in five minutes. The fact remains, however, that you don't need to tilt the spine forward too far before the entry and exit wounds line up appropriately.

Give your self a brake and examine the evidence.

For the last time, I HAVE. My conclusions differ from yours, but that is not because I haven't looked.

And you brushed right by the FACT that the WC had to have an artist produce a contrived conceptual drawing to even begin to make single bullet theory work.

And you brushed right by the FACT that THE SHOTS HAVE BEEN DUPLICATED. Will you explain that?

stop thinking and see

When examining evidence it is usually a good idea to actually think, otherwise you end up with the absurd and contradictory claims such as you make.

[profmunkin]

 This is not a case where numbers make the difference in determining who is more likely to be correct.

Shot in temple, exit wound in back right side of head vs Humes shot from behind, exit wound right middle
top of head
So all witnesses at the scene and doctors and nurses and x-ray technicians, photographers and FBI agents are just incompetent or so stupid as to mistake the 5 inch hole in back of JFKs head for an exit wound.
What kind of doctors and nurses did parkland have to not be able to differentiate a hole in the temple and a 5 inch exit wound in the back of JFK's head from a hole in the back and exit wound on side.  Get it, no one agreed with the 3 doctors that performed the autopsy at Bethesda, no one.

AARB -  Douglas Horne was able to study the assassination records for 3 years, conclusion autopsy results are a fraud.
JFK exit wound back right.