JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots

[ka9q]

Shot in temple, exit wound in back right side of head vs Humes shot from behind, exit wound right middle
top of head

Let's say a shot had hit JFK in the manner you describe. Where could it have come from? There were no bullet holes in the limousine windshield (though there was a crack after the 3rd shot when it was struck by a bullet fragment from the inside) so you must agree that we can rule out all trajectories requiring the third bullet to pass through that windshield before hitting JFK.

It turns out the only place from which you could make such a shot is about 13 feet above the top of the Triple Underpass, directly over the south curb of Main St.

Have you heard of any reports of an assassin perched on a 13' ladder on top of the Triple Underpass?

This analysis is from Dale Myers. I urge you again to check it out. Geometrically, it is simply impossible for such wounds to have been made in the way you claim. We can completely rule it out.

[Jason Thompson]

Shot in temple, exit wound in back right side of head vs Humes shot from behind, exit wound right middle
top of head

Hume's exit wound is still at the back right side of the head, just not round the back of his head. His conclusion also has the supprt of physics.

Get it, no one agreed with the 3 doctors that performed the autopsy at Bethesda, no one.

Actually they did. You're just reading too much into the use of the word 'back'.

Again, the shots have been duplicated. Do you care to acknowledge that fact?

[BazBear]

Sure doesn't look near pristine to me.

Because you don't realize what you should be looking at.

This bullet is accountable for causing 7 wounds
in so doing also shattered one of Connally's ribs
and also shattered bones in Connally's wrist.

It is improbable to traverse thru flesh and maintain it's 'pristine' shape
It is an impossibility to shatter bones and not be seriously flattend, deformed and fractured.

Plus
Connally had more bullet fragments still remaining in his wrist after surgery then can be accounted for.
Connally had bullet fragments removed during his surgery that also can't be accounted for - see Nurse Bell
Even if this bullet miraculously caused the 7 wounds and shattered bones, the extra bullet fragments can not be accounted for, period.

Plus the man who discovered this bullet stated it was not found on Connaly's stretcher - One more fact that was ignored by the WC.

Ce-399 appears to be in a more pristine shape then bullets test fired for ballistic comparison.

Okay, they go to all this trouble to set up Oswald as a patsy...yet they plant a bullet that's "too pristine"? Why not keep firing slugs until they get something a bit more mangled? Not to mention, at that point they would have had no idea what bullets would be found. One too many bullets and that certainly would have blown a conspiracy wide open.

As far as the damage to the bullet, your incredulity doesn't change the fact that ballistics experts think it's plausible. The round went through JFK, tumbled through Connally's chest, so by the time that bullet hit Connally's wrist it was slowed down to approximately 1000 fps. Dr. Martin Fackler, President of the International Wound Ballistics Association, did a test where he fired a round identical to Oswald's ammo into a human wrist at 1100 fps. Here is a photo of his bullet.

You'll find more info on CE399 and some of the tests here.

[profmunkin]

That page referes to shooting bullets through blocks of wood and notes their relative lack of deformation, and refers to shooting cadavers with the bullets. Do you want to suggest that not one shot through a cadaver went through a bone?

Jason you either produce 1 picture of a bullet that has traversed a rib and a wrist bone or you admit that there isn't one, because no one has ever been able to duplicate anything like the CE-399 bullet.
If nothing else stop supporting the 'pristine bullet' theory it really makes a person appear to be a crackpot.

You haven't addressed the problem of the missing extra bullet and too many fragments from the 'pristine bullet' that traversed Connally.

[Jason Thompson]

You haven't addressed the fact that the two shots have been duplicated.

Why should my inability to produce an exact replica of the bullet mean there is not one?

[profmunkin]

Okay, they go to all this trouble to set up Oswald as a patsy...yet they plant a bullet that's "too pristine"? Why not keep firing slugs until they get something a bit more mangled? Not to mention, at that point they would have had no idea what bullets would be found. One too many bullets and that certainly would have blown a conspiracy wide open.

As far as the damage to the bullet, your incredulity doesn't change the fact that ballistics experts think it's plausible. The round went through JFK, tumbled through Connally's chest, so by the time that bullet hit Connally's wrist it was slowed down to approximately 1000 fps. Dr. Martin Fackler, President of the International Wound Ballistics Association, did a test where he fired a round identical to Oswald's ammo into a human wrist at 1100 fps. Here is a photo of his bullet.

You'll find more info on CE399 and some of the tests here.
[/quote]
Plausable - what is this a guess that it could happen?
Plausable is fiction, what does this mean?

If if happened, then it can be duplicated.
Its not possible, never duplicated and never happened.

[Jason Thompson]

Plausable - what is this a guess that it could happen?
Plausable is fiction, what does this mean?

You really are clueless, aren't you?

The exact circumstances of a bullet's condition depend on many many variables. The chances of an exact duplication are millions to one against. That doesn't mean we can't assess some probabilities based on data we can obtain. 'Plausible' means that the hypothesis cannot be rejected.

If if happened, then it can be duplicated.
Its not possible, never duplicated and never happened.

Massive oversimplification of reality noted.

[profmunkin]

The bullet is made of lead, with a thin casing of copper, it deforms on impact, it deforms and can fragment just traversing through gelatin.

Do you understand the significance of the part I have emboldened?

Where did all the fragments remaining in Connally's wrist come from?
Where did all the fragments surgically removed from Connally's wrist come from?
Where did the bullet referenced by Connally /  Nurse Bell /  Trooper come from?

The bullet will deform even if shot into gelatin
this bullet went through flesh and bones
And came out without a trace of blood or human tissue to be found on the bullet, which by the way is also not possible.

[profmunkin]

Plausable - what is this a guess that it could happen?
Plausable is fiction, what does this mean?

You really are clueless, aren't you?

Just post the picture of test bullet that duplicates the feats of the 'pristine bullet' and end the arguement

[Jason Thompson]

Just post the picture of test bullet that duplicates the feats of the 'pristine bullet' and end the arguement

Why should there be any such picture?

Fact: the bullets do not deform as much as you expect them to.

Fact: This is shown conclusively by experiments under controlled conditions.

Fact: exact duplication of one bullet's condition is a million to one chance, which is why we conduct controlled experiments and draw conslusions from those results.

Fact: You still have not addressed the fact that the paths of both bullets and their effects have been duplicated. Why not?

[Chew]

Where did all the fragments remaining in Connally's wrist come from?
Where did all the fragments surgically removed from Connally's wrist come from?
Where did the bullet referenced by Connally /  Nurse Bell /  Trooper come from?

You still haven't answered my fragment question. How much would a fragment the size of an O weigh? Assume it is made of lead and it is 2 mm in diameter and 1 mm thick.

[profmunkin]

I have. I also happen to be more qualified in the area of anatomy and biology than you are. The third thoracic vertebra is nowhere near six inches below the adam's apple.

Great an expert
So in WC exhibit CE386 http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pdf/WH16_CE_386.pdf
Is the back wound depicted in WC exhibit CE386 at the third thoracic vertebra?
Does this picture match location shown on autopsy photos
or autopsy fact sheet?

Third thoracic vertebra so it is less then 6 inch's
is it 5 or 4 or 3 or 2 or 1 or 0
None of the above answers are exceptable, because the bullet has a downward trajectory.

[profmunkin]

[Contrived red herring fiction? You can see that JFK is not sitting up straight in the limo in every bit of film. He is slouched forward, and his coat is definitely ridden up around his neck as would be expected.

The position of the coat is irrelevent.
Kennedy wore a back brace, in my opinion he was not slouching forward, he may have slumped after he was shot.
Please post a picture illustrating a forward slouching.
Kennedy was hit lower on his back then the wound on the front, you just posted pictures of how far forward he would have had to slouch to be to accomodate a bullet from even a low angle.
The slouching red herring will not work

[BazBear]

Plausable - what is this a guess that it could happen?
Plausable is fiction, what does this mean?

If if happened, then it can be duplicated.
Its not possible, never duplicated and never happened.

The bullet damage wasn't exactly the same, but it is very, very similar. There are simply too many variables to ever get exactly the same damage. I suspect if the test bullets had the exact same damage, your next claim would be they are too perfect, and hence fake.

In any case, it's still up to you to prove CE 399 wasn't the "single bullet". So far all I've seen from you is incredulity and speculation.

[BazBear]

[Contrived red herring fiction? You can see that JFK is not sitting up straight in the limo in every bit of film. He is slouched forward, and his coat is definitely ridden up around his neck as would be expected.

The position of the coat is irrelevent.
Kennedy wore a back brace, in my opinion he was not slouching forward, he may have slumped after he was shot.
Please post a picture illustrating a forward slouching.
Kennedy was hit lower on his back then the wound on the front, you just posted pictures of how far forward he would have had to slouch to be to accomodate a bullet from even a low angle.
The slouching red herring will not work

Okay, so where did this shot come from? How did go front to back without hitting the limo windshield and/or the person sitting in the front right? And please explain how Connally received his wounds, without the bullet passing through JFK?