JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots

[Chew]

Wow. It's like arguing with an idiot. And I mean that in the archaic sense of someone with an IQ below 25.

[profmunkin]

Firstly, your assertion that 'virtually all' identified the knoll as the source of the sounds is wrong. Secondly, yes, that is exactly the sort of thing that can happen when trying to localise a sound. Acoustics is a complicated science, and simply does not conform to your layman's expectations of what you should be able to hear from where.

Your arrogance is funny.
Just for you I am going to research the law enforcement officials and determine how many converged on the grassy knoll and why they did.

You made me giggle, I can just see all of the Dallas police running the wrong way because they could not detect the direction of report...report.report.
At least we can marvel at them for all running in the same direction.

[profmunkin]

Wow. It's like arguing with an idiot. And I mean that in the archaic sense of someone with an IQ below 25.

Ya exactly, I know the feeling

[Chew]

Wow. It's like arguing with an idiot. And I mean that in the archaic sense of someone with an IQ below 25.

Ya exactly, I know the feeling

No, you don't.

[Echnaton]

However, it is your interpretation that the first identification was correct.  Further by stating "Dallas Police discovered " you are implying that determination was made after some sort of official examination.    Why is this interpretation preferred to the alternative of a mistaken identification of one individual?

Can we get real?
Police find a high powered rifle they believed was the murder weapon of a sitting president of the United States.

Weitzman examined and identified the rifle and the scope, how does Weitzman identify a rifle and not read the make and model stamped on the gun? How does Weitzman not read Weaver make and model stamped on the scope?
To propose Weitzman was the only man to look at the gun is preposterous, when the rifle was submitted into evidence a second person had to verify that the evidence submitted was what it was supposed to be. The foolish argument that these guns look similar backfires here because it would be all the more reason for second person to check for the manufactures stamps and serial numbers.
Then a third person examines the rifle for finger prints and fails to read the make and model stamped on the gun and on the scope.

Something this important and you are going to believe Weitzman just glanced at it and guessed it was a Mauser with a Weaver scope then recorded it in a sworn affidavit then submitted it into evidence where identification was not confirmed and the mistaken identity still not uncovered during examination for finger prints ?

Defies logic.

Why is your interpretation of events better than that done by the professional investigators who have accepted the statement as a ms-identification.   

According to Bugliosi, Deputy Sheriff Boone and Deputy Constable Weitzman stated they only saw it at a glance and did not touch it.  Weitzman was formerly in the sporting goods business and apparently familial with the Mauser.  In fact the Carcano was in a class of rifles know as "Mauser Action" rifles because it uses the same bolt action.  Weitzman, himself, has stated that he has no doubts that the Carcano is the same rifle he saw.   Weitzman was not part of Dallas PD so your earlier stated that "Dallas Police discovered and identified a 7.65 Mauser with a Weaver scope on the 6th floor TSBD," is in error about everything it says and implies. 

[Chew]

Apparently profmunkin thinks it's first come, first serve in the field of firearms identification.

Boone and Weitzman found the weapon, Lieutenant Day and Detective Studebaker each photographed the rifle in place, Captain Fritz picked up the weapon, Lieutenant Day held the weapon and inspected the bolt to see if there were any fingerprints on it and after determining he could not see any liftable fingerprints on it, Captain Fritz operated the bolt and ejected a live round. Lieutenant Day took possession of the weapon and brought it back to his office for processing.

[Echnaton]

Apparently profmunkin thinks it's first come, first serve in the field of firearms identification.

His interpretation must be backed up by reference to someone with an extensive knowledge of Dallas police procedures in effect at the time, surely.  I await the posting of his sources.  Now where is that smiley for turning blue in the face. 

[profmunkin]

According to Bugliosi, Deputy Sheriff Boone and Deputy Constable Weitzman stated they only saw it at a glance and did not touch it.  Weitzman was formerly in the sporting goods business and apparently familial with the Mauser.  In fact the Carcano was in a class of rifles know as "Mauser Action" rifles because it uses the same bolt action.  Weitzman, himself, has stated that he has no doubts that the Carcano is the same rifle he saw.   Weitzman was not part of Dallas PD so your earlier stated that "Dallas Police discovered and identified a 7.65 Mauser with a Weaver scope on the 6th floor TSBD," is in error about everything it says and implies.

Dah, No one touched it except Fritz.
Yes you are correct Weitzman was Deputy Constable, I knew that but carelessly included him in "Dallas Police", a painful error, so sorry.

Which is another reason to question why the Dallas Police did not do an identification on the rifle and the scope themselves.  Why would the Dallas Police accept the word of a Deputy Constable to identify the rifle and except it into evidence?

[Chew]

According to Bugliosi, Deputy Sheriff Boone and Deputy Constable Weitzman stated they only saw it at a glance and did not touch it.  Weitzman was formerly in the sporting goods business and apparently familial with the Mauser.  In fact the Carcano was in a class of rifles know as "Mauser Action" rifles because it uses the same bolt action.  Weitzman, himself, has stated that he has no doubts that the Carcano is the same rifle he saw.   Weitzman was not part of Dallas PD so your earlier stated that "Dallas Police discovered and identified a 7.65 Mauser with a Weaver scope on the 6th floor TSBD," is in error about everything it says and implies.

Dah, No one touched it except Fritz.
Yes you are correct Weitzman was Deputy Constable, I knew that but carelessly included him in "Dallas Police", a painful error, so sorry.

Which is another reason to question why the Dallas Police did not do an identification on the rifle and the scope themselves.

They did do an identification of it! LT Day brought it back to his office and dictated his identification of it to his secretary!

  Why would the Dallas Police accept the word of a Deputy Constable to identify the rifle and except it into evidence?

They didn't! Weitzman left the TSBD and filed an affidavit of what he did and saw. That is all Weitzman did!

Jesus Fucking Christ you're stupid!

[profmunkin]

Apparently profmunkin thinks it's first come, first serve in the field of firearms identification.

Captain Fritz operated the bolt and ejected a live round.

I don't know what you mean to say?
Are you implying that it was not possible for Deputy Constable Weitzman or Dallas Police to read 7.65 Mauser on the barrel or Weaver on the scope. Please explain.

After the last shell is ejected on a Carcano doesn't the clip fall out?

[profmunkin]

Weitzman left the TSBD and filed an affidavit of what he did and saw. That is all Weitzman did!

They didn't! Jesus Fucking Christ you're stupid!

And then the Dallas Police department announced to the news media that they found a 7.65 Mauser rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD.

Be nice or I won't play with you!

[Echnaton]

Why would the Dallas Police accept the word of a Deputy Constable to identify the rifle and except it into evidence?  Why would the Dallas Police accept the word of a Deputy Constable to identify the rifle and except it into evidence?

I don't know why they would have or would not have or if they did. You must have a source to share that details the handling of the rifle from its discovery by Boone and Weitzman until it was property identified. For instance, did Weitzman in fact make the identification that was used when the rifle was taken into evidence. 

Nevertheless, would the guy who cataloged it into evidence simply not accepted it?  Or would he have accepted it with a notation of the identification he was given so the police could establish a chain of custody until a through and professional determination could by made when the proper personnel were on hand?

Again,  why is your interpretation preferred to those of the professional investigators? What makes your scenario more likely than the one I have offered?

[Echnaton]

Apparently profmunkin thinks it's first come, first serve in the field of firearms identification.

Captain Fritz operated the bolt and ejected a live round.

Are you implying that it was not possible for Deputy Constable Weitzman or Dallas Police to read 7.65 Mauser on the barrel or Weaver on the scope. Please explain.

For god's sake, Weitzman did not examine the rifle.  He saw stuffed between two rows of boxes.  Secondly the caliber stamp on the rifle was obscured by the scope, and only visible by close examination. 

[Echnaton]

Let me add to others in stating the complete stupidity of claim, by noting that the brass found in the same room were for a 6.5 MM caliber rifle, matching the bullets that caused the wounds.  Profmunklin, you must have some factually plausible explanation as to why the conspirators would have planted rifle that differed from the brass?  Don't you?

[profmunkin]

]

For god's sake, Weitzman did not examine the rifle.  He saw stuffed between two rows of boxes.  Secondly the caliber stamp on the rifle was obscured by the scope, and only visible by close examination.

Where is the Mauser stamped and what do you suppose the Dallas Police thought of Argentino 1909 stamp.
They both end in an o