JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots

[profmunkin]

Now You can never know.

This is the ultimate tactic of conspiracy theorist.  Just raise enough doubt to make the conspiracy seem possible.  Then move directly to declare the conspiracy as proven. 

Your dodge won't work here.

Dodge?  Pointing out the obvious is hardly a dodge.
It is the most obvious question that should have been asked to Jarmin and Norman, did you see Oswald in the lunch room?
You are comfortable not knowing, you are comfortable that the most obvious question was not asked, you are comfortable with how ever they contrive the truth to be.
Deception is also in what is not said as well as asked.

[Echnaton]

It is the most obvious question that should have been asked to Jarmin and Norman....

In your opinion.  But you won't tell us why that opinion deserves any weight beyond that of a typical conspiracy crank on the internet. 

[Chew]

Dodge?  Pointing out the obvious is hardly a dodge.
It is the most obvious question that should have been asked to Jarmin and Norman, did you see Oswald in the lunch room?

Norman was asked the question; Jarman didn't need to be asked the question.

Jarman testified he left Oswald on the first floor, went into the lunchroom, retrieved his lunch, bought a soda, and left. So there was no need to ask if Oswald was in the lunchroom because he couldn't have gotten there ahead of Jarman. He ate his lunch while walking around on the first floor then he went out front. He was specifically asked if he saw Oswald while he ate his lunch and he said no.

Norman testified he ate his lunch in the domino room. He was asked if anybody else was in there and he said he couldn't remember.

[Jason Thompson]

So, as usual, unable to properly address the things already on the table you throw something else at us, prof.

Is there any danger of you actually presenting your idea of what really happened, or are we to conclude that all you are really interested in is desperately clinging on the the idea that the official version of events must not be true at any cost?

[Echnaton]

You are comfortable not knowing, you are comfortable that the most obvious question was not asked, you are comfortable with how ever they contrive the truth to be.

I am certainly no less comfortable in my views on the assassination than I was 49 pages ago.  On the contrary, I have learned a few new things that have made me more certain that LHO was the lone shooter.  Your FUD mongering has failed to find any customers here.

[ka9q]

Yes, as time goes on I also become more confident that LHO killed JFK without any help.

Not that I've ever seriously believed otherwise. But as I learn more of the details and see that they all confirm the same story, the notion that it could still have happened totally differently becomes even more remote and downright absurd.

Also, as I become more familiar with the tactics of the conspiracy theorists I see ever more clearly how:

1. they never present their own consistent, coherent picture of what they think happened; they are content to chip away at tiny parts of the case, apparently assuming that they should then win by default.

2. they cherrypick evidence that favors their case, typically a few eyewitnesses that tell them what they want to hear, while carefully ignoring the many more who don't. They invariably ignore nearly all the physical evidence because that tends to be a lot less ambiguous and supportive of what they want to believe.

3. even cherrypicked testimony is often quoted completely out of context. I've seen them quote one sentence of a witness's statement and omit the very next one that completely changes the meaning of what they just said.

4. they never give up, even when a claim has been soundly refuted, thus giving the impression to those less familiar with the case that their claims are still valid or at least unanswered.

All in all, I see more clearly all the time just how intellectually dishonest the conspiracists often are, and that doesn't make me very sympathetic to their case.

[Ranb]

This could not be done with a disassembled Carcano rifle.

Maybe it was carried like this?



Ranb

[profmunkin]

Current data for the direction of shots
28 Witnesses say Grassy Knoll
3   Witnesses say TSBD and Grassy Knoll
2   Witnesses say Triple underpass
2   Witnesses say Rail road yard
2   Witnesses say Below
3   Witnesses asked had no idea
44 Witnesses were never asked
8   Witnesses say TSBD

summation
8   Witnesses say TSBD
43 Witnesses say someplace other then the TSBD
44 Witnesses were never asked

The acoustics didn't fool 43 people situated at all directions from the grassy knoll, from ground level to 7 floor elevation, even inside the TSBD with windows closed or with witnesses watching from opened windows.
It fooled 8 people, when the sound bounced off the TSBD some people at street level where engulfed by the sound coming from in front and bouncing back at them from above, a few heard more of the above.
The majority of people within the TSBD thought the shots came from outside the building, the others can be explained by application of acoustics.





 

[profmunkin]

Ranb

Never thought about it but a package with curtain rods should be a whole lot smaller.

Frazier said Oswald palmed it on one end and the other was wedged under his armpit.
Frazier was very specific.

[Echnaton]

Current data for the direction of shots
28 Witnesses say Grassy Knoll
3   Witnesses say TSBD and Grassy Knoll
2   Witnesses say Triple underpass
2   Witnesses say Rail road yard
2   Witnesses say Below
3   Witnesses asked had no idea
44 Witnesses were never asked
8   Witnesses say TSBD

summation
8   Witnesses say TSBD
43 Witnesses say someplace other then the TSBD
44 Witnesses were never asked

The acoustics didn't fool 43 people situated at all directions from the grassy knoll, from ground level to 7 floor elevation, even inside the TSBD with windows closed or with witnesses watching from opened windows.
It fooled 8 people, when the sound bounced off the TSBD some people at street level where engulfed by the sound coming from in front and bouncing back at them from above, a few heard more of the above.
The majority of people within the TSBD thought the shots came from outside the building, the others can be explained by application of acoustics.

Not that I take your count as an accurate portrayal of the testimony, but for the sake of argument... 

It is simply impossible for the shots to have come from the GK.  Anyone who thought that was the location of a shooter was mistaken.  So we can simply disregard 31 of your 43 witnesses.  In fact the speculation by all the witnesses matter less than the physical evidence.  And numerous investigations have concluded that shots being fired from the TSBD is the best explanation for the physical evidence.  Are you prepared yet to tell us your hypothesis of locations and number of shots and to defend that hypothesis?  Untill you do that you are no different that any random conspiracy crank.

[profmunkin]

More data to come

What maybe interesting is all you conspiricied people have is Euins and Brennan claiming they saw the sniper in 6th floor window. Two half wits, who together wouldn't even make a nit wit.

What were all of the police looking at?
What were all of the Secret Service men looking at?

If the TSBD was the location where the shots came from and there were only a few open windows to see but not one trained professional saw anything. Anything, why?

I will help you, maybe Oswald shot from the shadows and could not be seen.

The police and the Secret Service should have looked toward the picket fence where twice as many people saw smoke and twice as many people saw the sniper.

[Chew]

Current data for the direction of shots
28 Witnesses say Grassy Knoll

Please provide the names of the people you claim heard shots from the grassy knoll.

The acoustics didn't fool 43 people situated at all directions from the grassy knoll, from ground level to 7 floor elevation, even inside the TSBD with windows closed or with witnesses watching from opened windows.

You are making an a priori assumption that the shots came from the grassy knoll when you claim the acoustics didn't fool 43 people. The various investigations have always tabulated a greater number of shots originating from the TSBD than from the grassy knoll.

Where are you claiming Harold Norman heard the shots come from?

[profmunkin]

It is simply impossible for the shots to have come from the GK.

What do you base this on?

[LunarOrbit]

28 Witnesses say Grassy Knoll

Irrelevant. How does someone standing at or near the grassy knoll shoot JFK and Gov. Connally in the back? It can't be done. It is physically impossible. Therefore those 28 witnesses must be mistaken.

3   Witnesses say TSBD and Grassy Knoll
8   Witnesses say TSBD

summation
8   Witnesses say TSBD

That's funny. My math says 11 people said TSBD.

43 Witnesses say someplace other then the TSBD

28 Witnesses say Grassy Knoll
2   Witnesses say Triple underpass
2   Witnesses say Rail road yard
2   Witnesses say Below

Hmmm. That totals 34. Where did you get the 43 from? Dyslexic?

2   Witnesses say Triple underpass
2   Witnesses say Rail road yard
2   Witnesses say Below
3   Witnesses asked had no idea
44 Witnesses were never asked
8   Witnesses say TSBD

That is 61 people who did NOT say the shots came from the grassy knoll.

The acoustics didn't fool 43 people

Why not? Everyone there was human and therefore they were all prone to the same difficulty in localizing the source of the gunshots acoustically. It doesn't matter who they were or what their profession was, it is a limitation that affects everyone. So I don't find it at all unusual that more people pointed to locations besides the School Book Depository if all they were basing it on was the sound.

I also suspect that the reason so many people pointed to the areas around the grassy knoll and the general direction ahead of the motorcade was because that is where a gunshot fired from TSBD would have echoed from the most. I imagine the sound would have travelled in the same direction as the bullet (spreading outwards like a wake behind a boat) and then echoed off of the hard surfaces ahead of the motorcade, bouncing back towards TSBD.

[profmunkin]

Are you prepared yet to tell us your hypothesis of locations and number of shots and to defend that hypothesis?  Untill you do that you are no different that any random conspiracy crank.

Can we agree that the depiction shown in attached image has the bullet entering the back above the throat wound whereas it should be about 5 inches lower then the neck wound. Close to where the arrow is pointing.