Author Topic: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties  (Read 150087 times)

Offline ChrLz

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #135 on: May 16, 2012, 03:35:21 AM »
I really dont have any rebuttals
...but I still have serious doubts.

Is there anything else I need to reply too that you know of??

I'd simply like to know why, if you have no rebuttals or arguments with what has been presented to you, you still have serious doubts?  That makes no sense to me.
Do you just love conspiracies?
Do you have a hatred for the USA?
Do you have a hatred for any government or semi-government authority?
Do you have a cynicism for any claim of high achievement?
Are you unhappy because you weren't alive to see the Apollo project unfold and succeed?

And may I ask, who would you regard as a trusted authority?  (My answer would be something like a university professor of engineering or aeronautics)  If you took any of these hoax claims to a person like that, what responses do you think you would get?  Any different to what you got here?


Finally, if there is anything that you still regard as a 'smoking gun', then say what it is and precisely WHY you still have doubts.

Offline DAKDAK

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« Reply #136 on: May 16, 2012, 04:06:05 AM »
Quote from: twik
Where does this "snow" come from? Why can't we see the clouds that create it? Where does all this water go every month after the tank fills? (Please, no "retaining water" jokes.)
These are things I'd like to hear from DAKDAK.
I guess the clouds must form over the dark side of the moon because it's colder there.

I believe that the earth's moon behaves in a similar way to Saturn's moon Enceladus. I believe that the way the water gets to the moon is along Electra magnetic field lines and through sprites, and eddies. I also believe this is what causes the moon to emit light. I think that when earth is between the moon and the sun the earth basically produces a comet like tail, which fills up the moon. I believe that when the moon is between earth and the sun the moon also generates a comet like tail due to the solar wind and the charged hydrogen or MOON WATER gently flows down to earth.

 I am not the only person who thinks this is true. Some of the top lunar scientists also believe this. There is a great lecture on this it is called Exploring the Lunar Atmosphere with Brian Day of the NASA Lunar Science Institute. I think that this MIGHT be where plankton comes from which is of course the beginning of the earths food chain. Below are 3 links to illustrate this if you are interested. you have to listen to the audio while you watch the powerpoint. It gets very interesting on slide #19 I think that the reason this is not seen easily on earth is due to the fact that the moon is out during our day when the solar wind basically empties the moon.

This is one of my main reasons for my thinking that the record of the Apollo missions was faked. How could such smart people as the Apollo scientist miss a lunar water cycle!!

http://nightsky.jpl.nasa.gov/download-view.cfm?Doc_ID=483

LUNAR WATER CYCLE remember when he says glowing dust I beleive that he should say SNOW,and when he says Lobate scarps I think he should say Ice Glaciers.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110726101729.htm

Enceladus

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/fermi-thunderstorms.html

How I beleive the moon fills up if you notice on the video the red dots and the magnetic feild lines correspond with the moons orbit


[Post restored by LunarOrbit]
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 08:29:57 PM by LunarOrbit »

Offline Valis

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #137 on: May 16, 2012, 05:23:47 AM »
You really should check your sources first. The presentation doesn't mention the Earth supplying water to the moon. They didn't observe any such flow of water between the two bodies.

Your second link says:
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"There is no analogy to this behaviour on Earth," says Paul Hartogh, Max-Planck-Institut für Sonnensystemforschung, Katlenburg-Lindau, Germany, who led the collaboration on the analysis of these results. "No significant quantities of water enter our atmosphere from space. This is unique to Saturn."

"Charged hydrogen" (by which you probably mean protons) is in no way "MOON WATER".

The last link is about thunderstorms ejecting antimatter from out atmosphere. It's not water.

This is one of my main reasons for my thinking that the record of the Apollo missions was faked. How could such smart people as the Apollo scientist miss a lunar water cycle!!
Could that be because no such thing exists?

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #138 on: May 16, 2012, 05:57:55 AM »
I also believe this is what causes the moon to emit light.

How many more times do we have to have this discussion, DAKDAK? The Moon does not emit light. It reflects light from the Sun. This is why we see phases of the Moon, and this is why eclipses happen when Earth casts its shadow on the Moon. Please will you explain why you think the Moon is emitting light and not reflecting it, as everyone else knows it to?

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charged hydrogen or MOON WATER gently flows down to earth.

Charged hydrogen is not Moon water. Water is hydrogen plus oxygen. Charged hydrogen is a proton.

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LUNAR WATER CYCLE remember when he says glowing dust I beleive that he should say SNOW,and when he says Lobate scarps I think he should say Ice Glaciers.

DAK, your credibility loses points heavily when you link to a source and then suggest that that source means something other than what it says...
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline twik

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #139 on: May 16, 2012, 10:45:32 AM »
OK, you believe that the Moon "emits light".

Can you explain:

1. Why half of the Moon at any given time does NOT emit light?

2. Why we can see shadows on the surface of the Moon, such as would be caused by sunlight hitting an otherwise unlit surface?

Offline JayUtah

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #140 on: May 16, 2012, 10:47:37 AM »
...maybe I am completely wrong about Apollo...

Pretty much, yes.

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I still have serious doubts.Is there anything else I need to reply too that you know of?? I will be happy to try.

Your serious doubts are entirely prejudicial, deriving most likely from your Fundamentalist faith which teaches you to eschew "secular" science and everything associated with it.  You won't achieve any sort of useful understanding so long as you believe science is of the Devil.

My recommendation is to attend a few non-Fundamentalist churches (e.g., the Episcopalians) and learn from them how you can have both faith and science.  They aren't mutually exclusive, despite what your religious indoctrination has suggested.  Nothing about faith requires you to be a Luddite.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Echnaton

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #141 on: May 16, 2012, 10:52:14 AM »
I think that the reason this is not seen easily on earth is due to the fact that the moon is out during our day when the solar wind basically empties the moon.


Of all the non sequiturs in your post, this is the one that is the most puzzling to me.


In saying that "moon is out during our day" are you saying that it is not emitting light during the daytime?  Or does the solar wind only empty the moon while it is the daytime sky on earth?   Please clarify because this really makes no sense at all to those that do not share your personal view of physics.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 10:54:06 AM by Echnaton »
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline JayUtah

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #142 on: May 16, 2012, 11:04:46 AM »
...this is why eclipses happen when Earth casts its shadow on the Moon.

Which I'll be observing this weekend from the teeming metropolis of Kanarrahville, Utah.

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DAK, your credibility loses points heavily when you link to a source and then suggest that that source means something other than what it says...

This is what Fundamentalists do.  The Bible says the Moon emits light, so that's the basis of the belief, and it cannot be questioned.  However, many Fundamentalists scour the annals of science for findings that seem to support that belief, no matter how tortuously those findings must be interpreted to do so.  They believe that science may ultimately vindicate all their biblical beliefs, but until they do so -- and if science disagrees -- then scientists are to be considered enemies of the faith.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #143 on: May 16, 2012, 11:24:30 AM »
I have had a chance to review Brian Day's 'lunar atmosphere' telecon, and can safely say that DAKDAK has no clue what he is talking about. Firstly, Day's talk uses Apollo data as supporting evidence for the phenomena he describes, and secondly Day refers to water molecules, not snowflakes made of billions of the things. It makes it very clear why we are only now detecting the 'lunar water cycle', and includes LRO images of Apollo landing sites. So in no way can it be considered evidence that Apollo was faked.

Oh, and with regard to the article about Enceladus raining water down onto Saturn, I feel obliged to point out that, unlike our Moon, Enceladus is largely made of water ice, so has a plentiful supply of the stuff.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline JayUtah

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #144 on: May 16, 2012, 01:08:08 PM »
I believe that the earth's moon behaves in a similar way to Saturn's moon Enceladus.
But from Earth, using only telescopes, we can determine that our moon and Enceladus are differently composed.

Quote
I believe that the way the water gets to the moon is along Electra magnetic field lines...
I assume you mean "electromagnetic."  Electra is either Carmen's last name, or the model of Lockheed airplane that Amelia Earhart flew.  It doesn't help your credibility that you use technical terms incorrectly.  Magnetic fields have no effect on water.  We can determine this on Earth using simple experiments.

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...and through sprites, and eddies.
Eddies in what?  You're talking about a fluid dynamics effect in an area of space in which there provably exists no fluid.

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I also believe this is what causes the moon to emit light.
How would water on the Moon, regardless of how it may have gotten there, cause the Moon to emit light?  Water doesn't emit light any more than rock does.

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I think that when earth is between the moon and the sun the earth basically produces a comet like tail...
Wow!  After starting another thread with a lengthy laundry list of phenomena you insisted we "couldn't" know, you fire off a whopper like this?

Okay, I'll bite.  In all your lengthy observation and "common sense" analysis using your little backyard telescope, what data did you collect to confirm this hypothesis?  Is this something you observed, or something you inferred from how you believe comet tails operate?  If an inference, what mental exercise did you undertake to see how planets are different from comets?  If a comet had a strong magnetic field (which they don't), how would that affect whether the solar wind were able to form a tail?  If the comet's tail is composed of matter, how would the very much stronger gravity of, say, a planet affect whether the solar wind were able to "blow" matter away from it?

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the charged hydrogen or MOON WATER...
No such thing as "Moon water," neither in chemistry nor in the Bible.  Charged hydrogen is just a proton, as has been explained.  And since the solar wind itself contains those protons, we don't need the Moon to be there in order to get a "shower" of protons.

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...gently flows down to earth.
Hogwash.  The Earth provably generates a magnetic field such that incoming protons, and anything those protons might conceivably somehow entrain, are deflected either around the Earth or into toroidal flow patterns along isomagnetic lines.  They never get to Earth's atmosphere, except at the poles occasionally as the Northern lights.  Can you think of an experiment to determine whether the aurora borealis contains entrained "moon water?"

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I am not the only person who thinks this is true. Some of the top lunar scientists also believe this.
You name only one person, then misrepresent his results badly.  Sorry, you are alone in thinking this.  And in order for your belief to be true, several well-known and easily-testable properties of the physical world would have to be different than how we observe them to be.  Therefore your theory fails most miserably.

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This is one of my main reasons for my thinking that the record of the Apollo missions was faked. How could such smart people as the Apollo scientist miss a lunar water cycle!!

But they didn't miss it!  Where do you think your expert got the data to confirm his findings?  This is how science works.  We collected huge amounts of specimens and data during Apollo's operational phase.  The analysis phase for significant scientific research is an ongoing process, and it's not uncommon for it to take decades to develop.  Your expert is able to publish his findings only because Apollo was real and produced consistently and widely useful results.  Do you really think that science can only form valid conclusions if those conclusions arise simultaneously with data collection?  You know very little about how science produces the results that you depend on in your daily life.

Further your expert has never been to Enceladus or to Earth's moon.  Yet you ask us to trust his findings (or at least your mangled interpretation of them) based in part on such things as remote-sensing techniques.  Yet when I propose to use those same techniques, you tell me that I can't possibly know what I say I know, and that all of us appropriately educated people simply rely blindly on the unproven "book learning" you despised in your youth and continue to despise.  Therefore your opinion on the value of science aligns closely with whether you think that science supports your religious beliefs.  When others propose to know something that contradicts those beliefs, then scientists suddenly become a bunch of hapless know-nothings who fly in the face of "common sense."

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LUNAR WATER CYCLE remember when he says glowing dust I beleive that he should say SNOW,and when he says Lobate scarps I think he should say Ice Glaciers.
How presumptuous of you to change the key words in your quoted expert's findings so that they match your theory instead of his!  That's blatantly cheating.  Please stop trying to shoehorn legitimate science into your predetermined beliefs.  It only makes you look silly.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline sts60

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #145 on: May 16, 2012, 01:55:10 PM »
I believe that the earth's moon behaves in a similar way to Saturn's moon Enceladus. I believe that the way the water gets to the moon is along Electra magnetic field lines and through sprites, and eddies. I also believe this is what causes the moon to emit light. I think that when earth is between the moon and the sun the earth basically produces a comet like tail, which fills up the moon. I believe that when the moon is between earth and the sun the moon also generates a comet like tail due to the solar wind and the charged hydrogen or MOON WATER gently flows down to earth....
DAKDAK, let's put aside for the moment that you got basically every single thing wrong in what you said; that you completely misunderstood and misrepresented your reference; and that your reference used experiments placed by, and lunar samples returned by, Apollo astronauts.   

Let's consider just what it would take to "fill up" the Moon from Earth's water.

The volume of all the water on Earth is about 1.3 billion cubic kilometers.  This estimate is supported by direct observation.

The volume of the Moon is about 21.9 billion cubic kilometers.  This estimate is also supported by direct observation.  It does not require leaving the Earth.  It only requires very simple trigonometry and a few observations.

If the Moon "filled up" from Earth's water, all the oceans, lakes, and rivers on Earth would disappear every month, and still get nowhere near "filling" the Moon - not by an order of magnitude.

No advanced education needed; no taking NASA's word for it needed.  Just common sense, really.

Do you even think before you post?  At all?

Offline slang

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #146 on: May 19, 2012, 07:31:49 PM »
Eddies in what?

The space-time continuum. Although it is still unclear who, exactly, Eddy is.

Offline BazBear

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #147 on: May 20, 2012, 01:30:42 AM »
Eddies in what?

The space-time continuum. Although it is still unclear who, exactly, Eddy is.
This is Eddy, and the space-time continuum has left him a little worse for wear.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed,_Edd_n_Eddy
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Offline DAKDAK

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« Reply #148 on: June 03, 2012, 09:15:56 PM »
[
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 01:10:44 AM by DAKDAK »

Offline Echnaton

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Re: I don’t know if man went to the moon in the sixties
« Reply #149 on: June 03, 2012, 09:53:54 PM »
In response to your PDF.  Yes, it was a tight fit. 

But you still present no reason why the equipment was impossibly too large to fit in the capsule.  And while you are at it, tell us why the engineers that designed the capsules and the workers that assembled were fooled by this. 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 10:14:24 PM by Echnaton »
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett