Unexplained infertiltiy

[Luke Pemberton]

Potentially dangerous is every medicine, including Panadol, as I have pointed out listing its rare adverse effects. Serious harm, in rare cases, can be caused by Panadol also and other medicines..it is just rare to occur..

Sweating out is not a medicine though, there's a difference. Panadol is not a cure either, it's a relief for cold/flu symptons. How rare is rare though, what are the numbers for a Panadol reaction?

[LionKing]

Potentially dangerous is every medicine, including Panadol, as I have pointed out listing its rare adverse effects. Serious harm, in rare cases, can be caused by Panadol also and other medicines..it is just rare to occur..

Sweating out is not a medicine though, there's a difference. Panadol is not a cure either, it's a relief for cold/flu symptons. How rare is rare though, what are the numbers for a Panadol reaction?

I know it is not a medicine..I am speaking about medicines that are used instead of sweating. I don't know how rare you can google it up, but they happen..how rare is sweating harm?

[Luke Pemberton]

I can point to Jason's last posts as an example. this I would accept.

Good, because while vitriolic he is thorough and highly incisive, as I would expect any scientist of Jason's calibre to be. I plea with you now to put away your opposition to Gillianren's post and take a breather from this. Quite often the nature of posts are lost without the advantage of hearing the voice and being sat with the person. In general we are not a mean spirited bunch, we can be quite boisterous. No one can accuse of us of being phlegmatic. 

[LionKing]

I can point to Jason's last posts as an example. this I would accept.

Good, because while vitriolic he is thorough and highly incisive, as I would expect any scientist of Jason's calibre to be. I plea with you now to put away your opposition to Gillianren's post and take a breather from this. Quite often the nature of posts are lost without the advantage of hearing the voice and being sat with the person. In general we are not a mean spirited bunch, we can be quite boisterous. No one can accuse of us of being phlegmatic. 

you are not her lawyer. if she changes her attitude to that like Jason's, she will surely get better responses.

[Luke Pemberton]

I know it is not a medicine..I am speaking about medicines that are used instead of sweating. I don't know how rare you can google it up, but they happen..how rare is sweating harm?

You tell me, it's your argument. I would not cause a baby to sweat if they had a viral infection as that would mean rasing their body temperature. I remember when I was young, my brother had several nasty viruses and the doctor would advise my mother to lie him in his bed in just his nappy to make sure he remained cool. There is serious concern of dehydration in infants.

[LionKing]

and something else I want to add is, if such of any traditional ways didn't work first, I am certainly , and I will myself, go to medicine. Imagine that I put up with my toothache (I don't know what was the cause of it) after trying garlic and failing. however, I smashed garlic  with slat and lemon and bit them..The pain was intense and then disappeared. after some days it returned but less intense, I repeated it and it was gone forever. If it hadn't, I would of course have gone to medicine.

[Luke Pemberton]

You are not her lawyer.

I never claimed to be. I'm offering you some advice, relax a little. She offered a forceful and strong argument about the nature of knowledge, and that is her prerogative in this matter.

[LionKing]

I know it is not a medicine..I am speaking about medicines that are used instead of sweating. I don't know how rare you can google it up, but they happen..how rare is sweating harm?

You tell me, it's your argument. I would not cause a baby to sweat if they had a viral infection as that would mean rasing their body temperature. I remember when I was young, my brother had several nasty viruses and the doctor would advise my mother to lie him in his bed in just his nappy to make sure he remained cool. There is serious concern of dehydration in infants.

sure not for a baby..I wouldn't mess with babies either..I think we all have common sense not to do this, and not to try traditional things in serious cases.

[LionKing]

You are not her lawyer.

I never claimed to be. I'm offering you some advice, relax a little. She offered a forceful and strong argument about the nature of knowledge, and that is her prerogative in this matter.

but you acted as if

the argument I believe doesn't fit me because I only spoke about a mild issue that is common cold, not a serious threat, and I wouldn't speak about something serious as measles, so the comparison of knowledge although true, doesn't fit here I believe. this is my idea, you can have yours

[Jason Thompson]

between the lines is that by that topic I could cause people to be dead

Between the lines is whatever you decide to read into it. However, the constant arguing from medical ignorance, which you have been doing on here, is the kind of attitude that can lead to very harmful results. No-one is saying you will cause deaths, but you have shown a frankly alarming unwillingness to accept the challenges to your statements and to see the difference between your own anecdotal experiences and the results of an actual scientific trial of any given medical practice.

Frankly, your own experience of chewing on garlic, salt and lemon to relieve tooth pain means nothing, because you don't know what caused the pain, you don't know how the pain would have progressed without the garlic, lemon and salt chewing, and you don't know it won't recur. That's what drug trals do. They comapre patients who do and don't take the drugs to see if there's any effect, and they go after a diagnosis of what is causing the symptoms in the first place. Then they follow up with those patients to see the rate of recurrence of the problem, or any long temr adverse effects. Now you're free to recommend that method, but if someone follows that recommendation and it doesn't work, are you going to challenge their experience because it doesn't match with yours? Or if a medical professional releases results of a study that says that actually that combination of things may have eased the pain but it did it by killing the nerves and therefore did more long term harm than good, are you still going to recommend that treatment?

[Luke Pemberton]

Sure not for a baby..I wouldn't mess with babies either..I think we all have common sense not to do this, and not to try traditional things in serious cases.

So we have got to a point. Such advice promulgated on the internet could cause death. You do know there is a correlation with cot death and body temperature. This is why woo-woo science, regardless of topic, is dangerous to the misinformed. Not everyone has common sense.

I'll provide you an example. There are four categories of child abuse: sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse and neglect. Neglect is the most common form and is loosely defined as not providing a child with the correct physical care, such as nutritional food, correct or clean clothes or access to a home. Many young mothers are sent on cookery courses to feed children properly because they are neglecting their children. It is not their fault, but because they do no have common sense as you call it. Such mothers may come from poor backgrounds, have received poor education, or themselves have been the victim of abuse. They then find themselves caring for a baby and do not have the requisite skills. We can not always invoke common sense as the fall back option, instead we need to defer to specialist advice. So, imagine a young mother, tired and kept awake by a crying child, thinks that the best way to help her child is to wrap up that child warm at night. Deadly consequences? That's why woo-woo science is vehemently attacked at this forum, because the people here are scientists and know what they talk about.

[LionKing]

between the lines is that by that topic I could cause people to be dead

Between the lines is whatever you decide to read into it. However, the constant arguing from medical ignorance, which you have been doing on here, is the kind of attitude that can lead to very harmful results. No-one is saying you will cause deaths, but you have shown a frankly alarming unwillingness to accept the challenges to your statements and to see the difference between your own anecdotal experiences and the results of an actual scientific trial of any given medical practice.

Frankly, your own experience of chewing on garlic, salt and lemon to relieve tooth pain means nothing, because you don't know what caused the pain, you don't know how the pain would have progressed without the garlic, lemon and salt chewing, and you don't know it won't recur. That's what drug trals do. They comapre patients who do and don't take the drugs to see if there's any effect, and they go after a diagnosis of what is causing the symptoms in the first place. Then they follow up with those patients to see the rate of recurrence of the problem, or any long temr adverse effects. Now you're free to recommend that method, but if someone follows that recommendation and it doesn't work, are you going to challenge their experience because it doesn't match with yours? Or if a medical professional releases results of a study that says that actually that combination of things may have eased the pain but it did it by killing the nerves and therefore did more long term harm than good, are you still going to recommend that treatment?

the point that you can't see is the existence of a sound theory behind the anecdote, an anecdote that has been tried by many and succeeded. you still fail to refer to this.

the garlic is known for being anti-inflammatory and kills harmful microorganisms. what I did is that I assumed this is the case and I got a relief immediately after using them. there is no article I read that says it causes nerve damage, but plenty that say it is anti-inflammatory...

and medical ignorance about high temperature, before reading it, I got it from a physician .. she might be medically ignorant after all those years of practice

[Andromeda]

You were presented with evidence from doctors showing that "sweating it out" is dangerous, which you ignored before you abandoned the thread.

As for your comments about Gillianren, I think you are projecting.  Your attitude has been very aggressive, IMO.

[Jason Thompson]

the garlic is known for being anti-inflammatory and kills harmful microorganisms.

Well then I stand corrected as there does seem to be some evidence of the health benefits of garlic. However, the original point of your previous thread about side effects of pharmaceuticals versus natural remedies still stands: one set is rigorously documented because it has to be, the other is not but that doesn't mean it isn't there at all, or that natural remedies are better than processed ones.

[Jason Thompson]

and nutrition I meant affects the cells involved in reproduction

As should be blatantly obvious, nutrition affects every cell type. There is a vast area of research devoted to just this field of biology. Reproduction, frankly, is not the highest priority for research in a world with an ever-increasing population, since on an average level the reproductive potential of the human race seems pretty good. While I am sorry for anyone who is infertile for reasons unexplained, I don't think raising false hopes by telling them a better diet will do the job before this is scientifically and medically proven to an acceptable degree in humans is a particularly good idea.