Author Topic: No tracks left by the moon buggy  (Read 31602 times)

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2015, 11:51:16 AM »
I recall that. It was for Apollo 14, and it was a question posed by someone who did not believe the missions occured as stated. One of our members here (although I can't recall who it was, sorry) researched and uncovered a fairly big piece of evidence.
Now how would NASA ever think of someone would actually question the position of objects.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/AS14-64-9189.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/AS14-64-9194.jpg
show a series, Venus very dim ball just to the right of the high gain disk.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apollo+image+of+venus&biw=1366&bih=599&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMInI_Y75SNxwIVg5iACh0FAg0r#tbm=isch&q=apollo+14+image+of+venus&imgrc=KjxsO5Mggd1V-M%3A
Google's image is annotated.

I believe I have also found Venus on AS14-66-9327 to 32, see towards the end of this page:

http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/stars/as14venus.html

These images were taken from inside the LM after the final EVA (if I'm right).

You can also see Venus in some Apollo 16 images.

Offline bknight

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2015, 12:00:20 PM »
I recall that. It was for Apollo 14, and it was a question posed by someone who did not believe the missions occured as stated. One of our members here (although I can't recall who it was, sorry) researched and uncovered a fairly big piece of evidence.
Now how would NASA ever think of someone would actually question the position of objects.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/AS14-64-9189.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/AS14-64-9194.jpg
show a series, Venus very dim ball just to the right of the high gain disk.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apollo+image+of+venus&biw=1366&bih=599&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMInI_Y75SNxwIVg5iACh0FAg0r#tbm=isch&q=apollo+14+image+of+venus&imgrc=KjxsO5Mggd1V-M%3A
Google's image is annotated.

I believe I have also found Venus on AS14-66-9327 to 32, see towards the end of this page:

http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/stars/as14venus.html

These images were taken from inside the LM after the final EVA (if I'm right).

You can also see Venus in some Apollo 16 images.
Did you ever get any stupid comment that the Earth was to small in these images?
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2015, 12:02:40 PM »

Did you ever get any stupid comment that the Earth was to small in these images?

Not to anything I've done specifically, but I've seen it argued.

My response is usually to ask whoever makes the comment to go out with a camera and take a photo of the moon, then see if it looks as big in the photo as they think it should.

Offline Count Zero

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2015, 12:05:42 PM »
Here is the original thread where Venus was found.  Data Cable's revelation is near the bottom of the first page.  Showtime's frantic tapdancewhen he realizes he's been owned is hilarious.   ;D
"What makes one step a giant leap is all the steps before."

Offline bknight

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2015, 12:09:31 PM »

Did you ever get any stupid comment that the Earth was to small in these images?

Not to anything I've done specifically, but I've seen it argued.

My response is usually to ask whoever makes the comment to go out with a camera and take a photo of the moon, then see if it looks as big in the photo as they think it should.
Cool, BerieSlack posted a video for hunchback concerning the same concept. 

Too bad that more HB's don't visit web pages like yours to get another viewpoint.  Except they would brand you as a shill.  The discussion may not be as viral here, but YouTube has a plethora of uneducated/mislead. 
Is it permissible to post links to your web pages?
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline JayUtah

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2015, 01:43:40 PM »
The "line between stage and backdrop" argument is an old one.  Yes, that is a common technique in theatrical design to convey a three-dimensional illusion of depth.  But consider that it's a convincing technique because it mimics what occurs in real life.  I live in mountainous country.  Compared to the mountains in my home valley, the relatively minor fluctuations in the valley floor seem very insignificant.  But in fact according to surveys they amount to a hundred meters or more.  Even from my office, perched 100 meters above the valley floor, I can see across the valley only a few kilometers; the aptly named town of Midvale sits atop a gentle rise which nevertheless blocks everything behind it until you see the mountains rising 2,000 meters above the valley floor.

Your other allusion to theatrical practice guesses that the rover was carefully prepped.  I was privileged to work on another program with the grip crew from From the Earth to the Moon, and their notion of "carefully prepping" the rover was to roll it into place on its own wheels, while wearing Apollo shoe coverings supplied by Global Effects, the company that made the space suit costumes.  On the program I worked on, we had a desert location and a single bright light source, much as there would be on the Moon.  What I noticed was that the tracks of the various pieces of equipment were variously visible depending on what angle I looked at them from.

Basically it comes down to the expectations that rover tracks should be seen in all the photos depicting the rover.  You have to be prepared to consider good and valid reasons why that expectation may not hold.  And if you're going to propose your own affirmative reasons why instead the tracks are not easily seen -- i.e., that it was all carefully set up on a film or photography set -- then you will be asked questions about how you tested that hypothesis.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline bknight

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2015, 02:01:46 PM »
The "line between stage and backdrop" argument is an old one.  Yes, that is a common technique in theatrical design to convey a three-dimensional illusion of depth.  But consider that it's a convincing technique because it mimics what occurs in real life.  I live in mountainous country.  Compared to the mountains in my home valley, the relatively minor fluctuations in the valley floor seem very insignificant.  But in fact according to surveys they amount to a hundred meters or more.  Even from my office, perched 100 meters above the valley floor, I can see across the valley only a few kilometers; the aptly named town of Midvale sits atop a gentle rise which nevertheless blocks everything behind it until you see the mountains rising 2,000 meters above the valley floor.

...
The fall off's look to me to be nothing more than a drop off of a small ridge of sorts, much like your valley.  With no atmosphere to partially obscure the ridge, it looks more clear and crisp.  So much for the "flat surface" claimed by many.  I assume you still have your duck(?)?.  A link to that set of images might be good for timbo.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline JayUtah

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2015, 02:24:50 PM »
It's a penguin, and it's still on my shelf.  Someone else has a more handy link to those images, but they were intended more to illustrate parallax than relative flatness.  Were the weather not quite so foul today I would take some illustrative pictures.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Bryanpoprobson

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2015, 03:00:11 PM »
I've never understood this "no tracks" BS. Basically the HB argument is:- A crane was used to move a fake rover into place and posed, when the said rover had wheels and clearly could be seen moving. But even if it had no engine, instead of pushing it into place, they used a crane?¿ Why?¿ Oh, the crew wanted to be whistleblowers.. :D :D

Paranoia is alive and well in many corners of the globe. :)
"Wise men speak because they have something to say!" "Fools speak, because they have to say something!" (Plato)

Offline bknight

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2015, 03:01:13 PM »
It's a penguin, and it's still on my shelf.  Someone else has a more handy link to those images, but they were intended more to illustrate parallax than relative flatness.  Were the weather not quite so foul today I would take some illustrative pictures.
As soon as you said parallax, I remembered is was a response to a question I had asked.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/thread/589?page=1
Its hard to keep up with all I've been shown in the last few months.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline bknight

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2015, 03:03:16 PM »
I've never understood this "no tracks" BS. Basically the HB argument is:- A crane was used to move a fake rover into place and posed, when the said rover had wheels and clearly could be seen moving. But even if it had no engine, instead of pushing it into place, they used a crane?¿ Why?¿ Oh, the crew wanted to be whistleblowers.. :D :D

Paranoia is alive and well in many corners of the globe. :)
From a "Perconian" point of view.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2015, 04:16:57 PM »
I've never understood this "no tracks" BS. Basically the HB argument is:- A crane was used to move a fake rover into place and posed, when the said rover had wheels and clearly could be seen moving. But even if it had no engine, instead of pushing it into place, they used a crane?¿ Why?¿ Oh, the crew wanted to be whistleblowers.. :D :D

Paranoia is alive and well in many corners of the globe. :)

In keeping with most conspiracy "theory" beliefs, anything more than a modicum of thinking blows it straight out of the water. Most of these ideas are not internally consistent and bear no relation to the real world. As Jay said earlier...if you are a stage hand and you needed to get a wheeled vehicle moved on a stage the what would you do? Push it into place, or mess about with a crane, getting a rigger, hooking it up to straps, lifting it and then de-rigging it?

One of the most ridiculous of their ideas was the "Superlight" bollocks. I mean, where is that used in real life??? These  people really live by the "I can think it, therefore that MUST be how it was done".


"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline darren r

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2015, 05:26:37 PM »





Jeez, is that really how big the HB's claim the 'super light' was? Wouldn't that just fry anything put in front of it?
" I went to the God D**n Moon!" Byng Gordon, 8th man on the Moon.

Offline raven

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2015, 05:31:27 PM »
Yeah, that looks more like something pulled out of the 'Desperate Nazi weapon plans' archive. ::)

Offline bknight

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Re: No tracks left by the moon buggy
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2015, 05:45:56 PM »
I thought I'd seen that before.  Percy at his worst, but debunked
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan