Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.

[Dalhousie]

Neil, there is video of a PSS with a sublimator in it working in a vacuum. On the Moon. That video is replete with evidence of a vacuum, so why do you restrict yourself to video of use of a vacuum chamber when there is video of a spacesuited astronaut using the PLSS in a vacuum freely available?

Apollo 9 too.

[Apollo 957]

That's not the correct question. The correct question is "What level of trust do you have in the government?"

Whose Government? Remember, the ISS is an INTERNATIONAL concern, and it's not just Americans who do spacewalks there....

[Luke Pemberton]

Jason, again on Tapatalk here. Yes. It does not matter. The point being Neil has ignored your question on numerous occasions. If he had entertained you he would probably refute the vacuum evidence with a bare assertion. It's a no win situation.

Sent from my C2105 using Tapatalk

[nomuse]

Neil, a very simple question:

What law(s) of physics would the Apollo PLSS sublimator violate?

If none, why do you doubt its operation?

I've answered this question already but I'm happy to answer again.
None.
I doubt it's operation because when in 2007 I asked myself the question, "How can we prove we went to the moon?", I stumbled upon the spacesuit cooling system. I discovered that they allegedly cooled the suits using ice sublimators. Initially, I was amazed and fascinated. But then I sought more information, specs, procedures, photos, video and although I found some stuff like a patent, line drawings and some elementary information sent to me by the alleged manufacturer Hamilton Sunstrand, little of the abundance of information expected could be found by me. No photo (although there's one now) and still there's absurdly only one. And most absurdly, no video. Plus, calls to NASA and Hamilton Sunstrand resulted in no additional information despite promises made by NASA to do so. I also failed to find any academic-level book mentioning them but have since after a better search identified one published in 1993 that does.

Now, it's revealed in the technical information about sublimators shared on this thread that only sublimators and not manned spacesuits are placed in vacuum chambers during their test. This has led to the discussion and speculation about whether any manned spacesuit is ever brought under high vacuum prior to actual ISS EVA. I argue that it's preposterous to expect an astronaut to wait until they're at the ISS before experiencing high vacuum in a spacesuit and many of the Antagonists on the site argue that it would be "immoral" to do so because it would unnecessarily jeopardize the lives of the astronauts.

My response is that if it's immoral to practice wearing the suit in high vacuum on Earth in a vacuum chamber, it's even more immoral during an ISS EVA where nothing of vital importance is being performed. Better to deconstruct or deflate a basically worse than worthless liability than it is to risk a single life performing experiments of highly questionable value. (There I go kicking the hornets nest again)
Plus it's just absolutely absurd to think that NASA would have so little confidence in their spacesuits that they wouldn't allow astronauts to use them in high vacuum chambers but would allow them to be used on an ISS EVA.

I'll admit that this whole "immoral" argument has taken me by surprise. For a while during this debate, I metaphorically felt like I was on the ropes being pummeled. But then all of the sudden my opposition, in a surreal fashion, backed off to the center of the ring and started pummeling themselves bloody with a laughable argument. And on top of it, even if you believe NASA tested the sublimators in a vacuum chamber attached to a man wearing a spacesuit outside the vacuum chamber running on a treadmill, where's the video? Where's the photo?

One person argues that video recording is too expensive and although that may have once been true it certainly isn't true now. I probably have one of the cheapest cellphones on the market and it takes great photos and video.

And why are we having this debate? Fundamentally, it's because NASA refuses to be accountable. As a government agency making certain claims of achievement to taxpayers that fund them, there is nothing inappropriate about asking questions and receiving answers, requesting video and getting video, and most of all allowing independent witnesses to observe spacesuit with ice sublimator testing or training in a high vacuum chamber on Earth duplicating environmental conditions of orbit.

"None" would have sufficed.

We already understand that you were searching for evidence to support your existing beliefs, and we already understand that you believe your inability to find the kind of documentation you imagine must exist has any greater meaning.

[Abaddon]

That's not the correct question. The correct question is "What level of trust do you have in the government?"

Whose Government? Remember, the ISS is an INTERNATIONAL concern, and it's not just Americans who do spacewalks there....

Especially true, given that the US must perforce rent seat space on russian launchers right now. And return to earth on russian Soyuz re-entry vehicles. The inevitable consequence of Neil's position is that they must be in on it. And ESA.  And..Well the only one who isn't in on it is Neil.

[nomuse]

What level of trust do you have in technology?

That's not the correct question. The correct question is "What level of trust do you have in the government?"

And the answer to that is very little especially after 9/11 when 3000 Americans were murdered in our faces to manipulate Americans into sending about 7000 service members to their tragic deaths in illegal preemptive wars and a preponderance of evidence indicates that it was a Zionist job.
http://bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book/

I have just as little trust for most others in my engineering profession (and other professions) who went wretchedly silent even though World Trade Center forensic crime scene evidence was illegally removed and criminally destroyed and an official designated liar MIT professor of welding Thomas Eagar was trotted out after 9-11 to publicly pontificate on PBS NOVA about Structural Engineering that he wasn't an expert in, a clear violation of the Code of Ethics of the Society of Professional Engineers. I'm also disappointed that MythBusters and National Geographic have any credibility left after the superb Materials Engineer Jonathan Cole made them look like absolute tools with this most important video.

Also, I think the discussion about spacesuits and sublimators has become almost unbelievably ridiculous since it's taken such a huge metaphysical direction.
Immoral? Please!

"The government" doesn't make the suits or the sublimators, test them, wear them in space, or provide the ad-hoc "documentation" (aka extensive video from astronauts of various nations performing duties outside the ISS, among other things).

Just because the State of California registers my automobile, I find no particular reason to perform politically independent, video-documented, double-blind testing on the concept of internal combustion engines!

[bknight]

Also, I think the discussion about spacesuits and sublimators has become almost unbelievably ridiculous since it's taken such a huge metaphysical direction.
Immoral? Please!

Your inability to read and comprehend posts leads you to the metaphysical direction.  Had you firstly done a better job at research you wouldn't have had much to say in this thread.  You have been shown and yet you refuse to acknowledge a nickel porous plate sublimator attached to a space suit works in a vacuum, whether it has been tested to your standards.  Your real purpose for this has been exposed and then you start with the 9/11 investigation.  This is off topic, I suggest you start a thread in the "Other Conspiracy" area and leave the comment towards the sublimator here.

[bknight]

Especially true, given that the US must perforce rent seat space on russian launchers right now. And return to earth on russian Soyuz re-entry vehicles. The inevitable consequence of Neil's position is that they must be in on it. And ESA.  And..Well the only one who isn't in on it is Neil.

I don't think Neil is in on anything remotely connected to anything that encompasses technology, with the exception of bomb making perhaps.

[Abaddon]

Also, I think the discussion about spacesuits and sublimators has become almost unbelievably ridiculous since it's taken such a huge metaphysical direction.
Immoral? Please!

Your inability to read and comprehend posts leads you to the metaphysical direction.  Had you firstly done a better job at research you wouldn't have had much to say in this thread.  You have been shown and yet you refuse to acknowledge a nickel porous plate sublimator attached to a space suit works in a vacuum, whether it has been tested to your standards.  Your real purpose for this has been exposed and then you start with the 9/11 investigation.  This is off topic, I suggest you start a thread in the "Other Conspiracy" area and leave the comment towards the sublimator here.

Prediction: He will ignore all of that in favour of garnering the HB badge of honour, a ban from a skeptic site. That is clearly what he seeks. he has already flagrantly broken the site rules, ignored admin directives, and willfully ignored site admin directives. Will there be any other inevitable result from such bizarre behaviour? Nope. He wants a ban.

[bknight]

Prediction: He will ignore all of that in favour of garnering the HB badge of honour, a ban from a skeptic site. That is clearly what he seeks. he has already flagrantly broken the site rules, ignored admin directives, and willfully ignored site admin directives. Will there be any other inevitable result from such bizarre behaviour? Nope. He wants a ban.

LO hands out badges also?  
I agree he hasn't listened or comprehended anything that has been spoon fed.  He lacks the ability for any rationale behavior, here or in real life.

[Abaddon]

Prediction: He will ignore all of that in favour of garnering the HB badge of honour, a ban from a skeptic site. That is clearly what he seeks. he has already flagrantly broken the site rules, ignored admin directives, and willfully ignored site admin directives. Will there be any other inevitable result from such bizarre behaviour? Nope. He wants a ban.

LO hands out badges also?  

Perhaps he should.

I agree he hasn't listened or comprehended anything that has been spoon fed.  He lacks the ability for any rationale behavior, here or in real life.

He has been handed everything he demanded, yet immediately moved his goalposts, go figure.

[bknight]

Prediction: He will ignore all of that in favour of garnering the HB badge of honour, a ban from a skeptic site. That is clearly what he seeks. he has already flagrantly broken the site rules, ignored admin directives, and willfully ignored site admin directives. Will there be any other inevitable result from such bizarre behaviour? Nope. He wants a ban.

LO hands out badges also?  

Perhaps he should.

I agree he hasn't listened or comprehended anything that has been spoon fed.  He lacks the ability for any rationale behavior, here or in real life.

He has been handed everything he demanded, yet immediately moved his goalposts, go figure.

Rather like a dog chasing his tail.

[bknight]

Hello  Hello Hello  Hello
Must be all quiet on the western front.

[Dalhousie]

Especially true, given that the US must perforce rent seat space on russian launchers right now. And return to earth on russian Soyuz re-entry vehicles. The inevitable consequence of Neil's position is that they must be in on it. And ESA.  And..Well the only one who isn't in on it is Neil.

Also Japan, Canada, Brazil, China......

[raven]

Especially true, given that the US must perforce rent seat space on russian launchers right now. And return to earth on russian Soyuz re-entry vehicles. The inevitable consequence of Neil's position is that they must be in on it. And ESA.  And..Well the only one who isn't in on it is Neil.

Also Japan, Canada, Brazil, China......

. . .  incredibly wealthy private citizens . . .