Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.

[gillianren]

Well, excuse me. It's just that I'm not in the habit of using HTML. I think I'm getting the hang of it. Please be patient. Also, please don't exaggerate the numbers. Compartmentalization of information would vastly reduce the number of people that have anything to do with high vacuum testing.

Maybe with high vacuum testing, but as I've said before, you don't just have to explain one thing.  If you think the missions were hoaxed, you don't get to just handwave away one piece of data.  You have to explain the entire hoax, which involved thousands of people who knew that their bit worked.  If anything, that's an underestimate.

Hopefully, it would have shown the elusive sublimator. Usually there's a vacuum chamber sight glass that would allow it's viewing. According to the test procedure from the seventies, the astronaut is in the suit attached to the sublimator in a vacuum chamber via an umbilical. That would be interesting video. Also, it would be interesting if the sublimator could be positioned in the vacuum chamber in a way that allowed viewing of the pores and any ice surface extruding from them. Vacuum gauge readings would be important to show. A quick video scan of the equipment would be good, what type roughing pumps and what type high vacuum pumps.

What would you actually expect to see from the pores as ice sublimated?

[Neil Baker]

Neil, there is evidence, on video and film, of a PLSS with sublimator (several PLSSs, in fact) working in what is clearly a vacuum on the Moon. This is the fifth time of asking and I am anticipating the fifth time of you ignoring it.

As I've said to Neil, over at YouTube, and here; The Whole Wide World has watched these PLSSs and sublimators in use, in the environment for which they were intended, for 50 years or so.

He ignores it every time. You going to ignore it again, Neil? Or are you going to suggest every spacewalk, moon EVA, etc. was carried out in front of a 'green screen'?

If they faked the moonwalks, then obviously the video is fake. It would be pure speculation on my part as to why or how they faked it. My position is that if the spacesuits and sublimators weren't operated in high vacuum on Earth with an astronaut wearing the suit (and that seems to be the consensus with many suggesting it would be immoral to do so), then it's probably a hoax because I don't think any astronaut in their right mind would wait until they're in orbit before donning the suit for a high vacuum experience.

That's all for today. Good night.

[JayUtah]

...I don't think any astronaut in their right mind would wait until they're in orbit before donning the suit for a high vacuum experience.

Let me know when you stop conflating training with testing.  Otherwise, none of this is a decision you get to make.  You're just not that important.  Or qualified.  Or informed.

[Tedward]

If they faked the moonwalks, then obviously the video is fake. It would be pure speculation on my part as to why or how they faked it. My position is that if the spacesuits and sublimators weren't operated in high vacuum on Earth with an astronaut wearing the suit (and that seems to be the consensus with many suggesting it would be immoral to do so), then it's probably a hoax because I don't think any astronaut in their right mind would wait until they're in orbit before donning the suit for a high vacuum experience.

That's all for today. Good night.

Tried to work out how to fake it? Interesting thought exercise. The only way part of it can be faked (the difficulty  and probably the impossibility in that is another subject), this fake, is to do it in a vacuum chamber.

Now, just going to drive my immorally tested automobile and hope I do not crash and burn.

Edit. Just meant to pick up on that bit not the whole quote. I may have messed up the selection. Oops.

[Jason Thompson]

If they faked the moonwalks, then obviously the video is fake.

Circular reasoning at its best, thank you.

I repeat: there is evidence of those suits working in a vacuum. If you can brush that off as fake why are we expected to beieve that you won't do the same thing with any video or film of a vacuum chamber test? Your integrity fails with your handwavng away of the entire evidentiary record. You don't get to pick and choose arbitrarily which bits are real and which are faked.

I don't think any astronaut in their right mind would wait until they're in orbit before donning the suit for a high vacuum experience.

So why not extend your argument to the spacecraft itself? Failure of that piece of hardware is more likely to be fatal than failure of a sublimator on a spacesuit.

[VQ]

Now, just going to drive my immorally tested automobile and hope I do not crash and burn.

You fool. You drive an automobile that was not crash tested with a person inside?

[Tedward]

I live dangerously, Y fronts on back to front and once took a ferry that had not been sunk to prove it floated.

[Peter B]

Neil Baker

You said earlier that...

A faith-based space program is unacceptable.

Now, when pressed for a few details about Apollo you say things like this:

It would be pure speculation on my part as to why NASA would fake Apollo.

It would be pure speculation on my part as to why or how they faked it [video footage].

I don't know of any reason the spacesuit sublimators wouldn't work. I've never made the claim that they wouldn't.

...it would require pure speculation on my part to answer why the Soviets would go along with the hoax.

I don't know [how unmanned sample retriever missions would have worked] and you already know I don't have any way to acquire that information.

All this evidence discarded because you’re unsatisfied with how spacesuit sublimators were tested on Earth.

With respect, the person showing the greatest level of faith-based attitude is you.

I often wonder if there's a power on Earth greater than nations.

To quote Albert Einstein, ‘human stupidity’?

[Zakalwe]

<potential explanation for mental breakdown snipped>

I read your responses here to there being nothing that could reasonably convince any responsible engineer that a spacesuit or sublimator had ever been in a vacuum chamber since 1966 and I’m creeped out even more.

You've been shown images of the suit being tested in a vacuum chamber in 1968. In addition, you have the personal testimony of Russell Schweickart. Finally, you've been given the Apollo Experience report which detailed the design and development of the sublimator, including the 60-80 hours of vacuum testing to simulate lunar conditions.
Why then the insistence that "nothing that could reasonably convince any responsible engineer that a spacesuit or sublimator had ever been in a vacuum chamber since 1966"?

[Obviousman]

I was going to join in but I see that I would be wasting my time. Mr Baker has decided upon his position and nothing will move him from it.

[beedarko]

I was over looking at the site rules and it indeed says that I'm supposed to answer every question posed to me in a timely manner.
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I'll give it a go

Excellent. In that case I'd like to participate too.

#1: You've candidly admitted that the higher purpose in your assault on NASA's credibility is to later use any perceived evidence of misconduct as a means to buttress your arguments for a 9/11 conspiracy.  If your positions on 9/11 have merit, why would they require the support of a guilt by association claim?  Would they not stand on their own? 

#2: Given your criminal history, to what extremes would you go in order to defend ideologies you deem important?  You appear to have no reservations about destruction of private property, threats of physical violence and cyber stalking.  Would arson or murder be acts you might find justifiable under a given set of circumstances?

http://www.independent.com/news/2013/dec/12/former-ucsb-employee-neil-baker-sentenced-probatio/

Baker, 55, was arrested in August for felony vandalism and misdemeanor trespassing after he was caught damaging windows at the Engineering Science Building at UCSB. The court granted a temporary restraining order against Baker in August, specifying he was to remain at least 100 yards away from the campus.

Baker left his position as a senior development engineer at UCSB in 2004 and relocated to Washington. He was arrested in 2010 in Washington after he posted bomb threats and attacks against UCSB employees on Craigslist and Facebook, causing the university to go on high alert and warn people to immediately contact authorities if they saw Baker on campus.

[Apollo 957]

I was over looking at the site rules and it indeed says that I'm supposed to answer every question posed to me in a timely manner. Wow! No wonder you have so few protagonists. Seems kinda unfair to me.

If only YouTube had the same rule ....

[Apollo 957]

Neil, there is evidence, on video and film, of a PLSS with sublimator (several PLSSs, in fact) working in what is clearly a vacuum on the Moon. This is the fifth time of asking and I am anticipating the fifth time of you ignoring it.

As I've said to Neil, over at YouTube, and here; The Whole Wide World has watched these PLSSs and sublimators in use, in the environment for which they were intended, for 50 years or so.

He ignores it every time. You going to ignore it again, Neil? Or are you going to suggest every spacewalk, moon EVA, etc. was carried out in front of a 'green screen'?

If they faked the moonwalks, then obviously the video is fake. It would be pure speculation on my part as to why or how they faked it. My position is that if .... then it's probably a hoax

If they didn't fake the moonwalks, then obviously you would accept that the film, stills and live broadcasts, along with the data from the astronaut's medical monitoring, and from the lunar experiments, aren't fake? No?

[smartcooky]

If they faked the moonwalks, then obviously the video is fake. It would be pure speculation on my part as to why or how they faked it.

Not that you will take any notice, but you might want to spend a little time watching this video. Its by a film maker who has no opinion on whether NASA went to the moon, i.e. he doesn't care whether they did or not. He can, however, categorically prove that the video could not have been faked with the technology available at the time.

[ChrLz]

A coupla quick comments to you, Neil, from a lurker who decided very early that you were not here in good faith...

1. That post about engineers and insults was the most hypocritical pile of excrement I've ever read.  You have the hide to call engineers a whole pile of names, and then lambast them for insulting *you*?  You honestly read that back to yourself before posting and didn't smell the rancid stench of your hypocrisy???

2. Will you EVER stop and actually engage in a step by step logical analysis?  I've never seen someone so strenuously avoid proper analysis, run away from addressing any technical questions and Gish Galloping off very conveniently to subjective areas like politics.  It's sad, and sadly obvious, rather than funny.

3. Why would you complain about answering lotsa questions, IF you had simply nominated your very best evidence of fakery right up front and then gone through it properly?  {whiny voice}The sublimator might not have worked?{/whiny}   Do you honestly not realise how unbelievably lame that is?

Why don't you grow some cojones and answer the obvious simple questions:
- is that seriously the best you have got?  ..if not, NOMINATE the best.
- if it is, why don't you want to go through all the information you have been given and SPECIFICALLY point out what is wrong?


May I rather rudely observe is that the only thing missing here is the sockpuppets..  Neil, you do realise that the complete lack of support you are getting is a rather large elephant in the room..?  No, I guess self-awareness is not one of your strengths.  No harm in that, I have a few weaknesses too, but I don't try to pretend I know stuff when I haven't a clue, as you have demonstrated here.  Could there be something in that for you, perhaps?