Men and dinosaurs

[LionKing]

you notice how you pop up to create trouble?

gillianren posts an interesting questions have you ever listened to an opposing opinion and changed yours?  I'm new so I don't know what mind set you have.  You certainly have not conceded that man did not live with dinosaurs as most of the rest of the world believes.

I keep an open mind about it, I listened to all, I can see pros and cons , but I am not conclusive either way. did she have to post such an attack? does this help the debate? is this a good way of how people talk to each other?

[LionKing]

There is also a world of difference between the original claim and the coelocanth. Humans and coelocanths each live in parts of the world that are hostile to the other. The original claim is about humans not only living at the same time as dinosaurs but actually co-existing to the point of humans and dinosaurs encountering each other regularly. Under those circumstances we would expect to see a lot more evidence of dinosaur/human coexistence than a few mythical representations and anecdotes of 'dragons and beasts'.

Maybe he will understand this better than what I have posted.  Goalpost shifting to meet the CT's perspective is.

EDIT: Correct spelling

She.  And if you find a way to get her to listen to opposing opinions, I'd be very interested in finding out what it is.  No one else has ever managed.

you notice how you pop up to create trouble?

Gillianren is not creating trouble, LionKing, she is stating a valid point. In all the years you have been posting here you have never grasped what science actually is all about despite numerous attempts by scientists on this discussion board to get you to understand, and you still pull up arguments like 'scientists say' and 'it would take only one find' to overturn a scientific idea.

yes she is. what would be expected as a result of such an aggressive post? love and peace? scientists say..yes..who else would we resort to? and didn't it take only one find to declare the fish unextinct? it would depend on issues debated

[Jason Thompson]

yes she is. what would be expected as a result of such an aggressive post? love and peace?

It was not aggressive, it was factual.

scientists say..yes..who else would we resort to?

Oh good grief. How many times? There are scientists here, and they usually say something totally different to your anonymous scientists who say the things you agree with, and yet you argue against us all the time. You have argued from ignorance about pharmaceutical products and the difference between 'natural' and 'synthetic' chemicals with no idication that you have understood and assimilated the responses from people who work in the relevant fields that populate these boards.

You 'resort to' the 'scientists' who agree with your preconceived notions and ignore or argue with the ones who don't. Repeatedly.

and didn't it take only one find to declare the fish unextinct?

No. It took one find followed by requests for other finds to confirm it was really what it appeared to be.

[LionKing]

yes she is. what would be expected as a result of such an aggressive post? love and peace?

It was not aggressive, it was factual.

scientists say..yes..who else would we resort to?

Oh good grief. How many times? There are scientists here, and they usually say something totally different to your anonymous scientists who say the things you agree with, and yet you argue against us all the time. You have argued from ignorance about pharmaceutical products and the difference between 'natural' and 'synthetic' chemicals with no idication that you have understood and assimilated the responses from people who work in the relevant fields that populate these boards.

You 'resort to' the 'scientists' who agree with your preconceived notions and ignore or argue with the ones who don't. Repeatedly.

and didn't it take only one find to declare the fish unextinct?

No. It took one find followed by requests for other finds to confirm it was really what it appeared to be.

fine. let's drop it, please

[Jason Thompson]

Sure, why not? It beats having to say the same thing over and over again to little avail.

[gillianren]

This is an honest, legitimate question, LionKing, and I hope you'll respond to it in an honest fashion.

What would it take to convince you that humans and dinosaurs were separated in time by millions of years?  Because I've already said what it would take to convince me they weren't.  Evidence.  I'd want you to show non-fossilized remains.  Documentation that isn't in fiction or legend--actual histories that were intended to be histories.  Things along those lines.  What would convince you?

[LionKing]

This is an honest, legitimate question, LionKing, and I hope you'll respond to it in an honest fashion.

What would it take to convince you that humans and dinosaurs were separated in time by millions of years?  Because I've already said what it would take to convince me they weren't.  Evidence.  I'd want you to show non-fossilized remains.  Documentation that isn't in fiction or legend--actual histories that were intended to be histories.  Things along those lines.  What would convince you?

i posted previously a link to historians but you can search marco polo, herodotus and Dion copied by another one amongst others
nonfossilized bones found with tissue, but scientists say it could be because of iron
non fossilized bones also where discovered with bloid in them.

[bknight]

i posted previously a link to historians but you can search marco polo, herodotus and Dion copied by another one amongst others
nonfossilized bones found with tissue, but scientists say it could be because of iron
non fossilized bones also where discovered with bloid in them.

You didn't read the material correctly, the samples were fossilized bones in which the blood and soft tissue were found.  Scientist were indeed surprised but the bones were 68 millions years old.
http://www.livescience.com/41537-t-rex-soft-tissue.html

[smartcooky]

Just one point I would like to make regarding humans in North America. Earlier a poster (I think it was Lion King) suggested that the existence of evidence of a Mastodin killed by a spear proved that humans were in North America a lot earlier than has been thought. Well I'm afraid that simply isn't true.

Mastodons became extinct about 11,000 years ago (Mammoths about 4,500 years ago), but humans are known to have lived in the North American continent only for the last 25,000 to 40,000 years.

The DNA of a 24,000 year-old skeleton discovered neal Lake Baikal in southern Siberia shows not only a close genetic relationship to today's Native Americans, but it also shows that he descended from people who had lived in Europe and Western Asia. It is almost certain that the ancestors of all Amerind people migrated to the Americas across the Bering Land Bridge which exists from about 25,000 to about 11,500 years ago until it was flooded in the big melt at the end of the last ice-age.

   

You have to go back to 130,000 years ago before there is enough ice locked up to lower the sea levels sufficiently for another land bridge to form in Berengia. There is no evidence of humans living in Siberia or North America at that time.

[LionKing]

knight yes..sorry my mistake i mixed two information i read sepqrately that ninfossilized bones were found in alaska

however the quick search i made for  non fossilizedmammoth bones found there didn't retrieve anything

[gillianren]

i posted previously a link to historians but you can search marco polo, herodotus and Dion copied by another one amongst others
nonfossilized bones found with tissue, but scientists say it could be because of iron
non fossilized bones also where discovered with bloid in them.

You do know that Herodotus is called "The Father of Lies" as often as he is "The Father of History," right?  He is not considered a reliable source.  This is a man who claimed, I kid you not, that one of the Pyramids was built by a pharaoh's daughter who prostituted herself out to earn money for her father but demanded that each man she slept with bring her a stone, and that those stones stacked formed a pyramid.  Marco Polo?  His history is so checkered that plenty of people don't even think he went to China at all.  But if dinosaurs were alive in Marco Polo's time, there are literally hundreds of other people whose writings we still have from those days who might have recorded them as not wonders from somewhere far away but as a thing from their region.  We don't.

But either way, that doesn't answer my question.  What would convince you dinosaurs and humans never interacted?  Don't give me information about mammoths; we know humans and mammoths interacted.  Don't cite writings of dubious historical merit to bolster the belief that they did.  Tell me, in your own words, what would convince you they didn't.

[LionKing]

http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/dragon
gillianren, all those ppl are lying you think?

what would convince me is how they knew to draw on caves long necks, for example..flying birds artefacts looking like later discovered flying dragons...

[gillianren]

So the word "imagination" means nothing to you?

[Zakalwe]

http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/dragon
gillianren, all those ppl are lying you think?

Thats an appeal to popularity. "Surely all those people can't be lying". Well, yes, they can, actually. Are Scientologists telling the truth? 25% of Americans over 18 believe in astrology. It's still bunkum, no matter how many believe in it.
And using a Creationist website as a source won't get you very far..... The reason why garbage websites like this exist is to popularise the notion that the Earth is only 6000 years old, in order to fit in with fundamentalist (emphasis on the mentalist bit...) belief in Bible fairy stories. Notice that they use photo's from one of Dr Duane Gish's books. The term "gish-gallop" was named after him.

what would convince me is how they knew to draw on caves long necks, for example..flying birds artefacts looking like later discovered flying dragons...

Why wouldn't they? Mankind has drawn and told tales about fantastical creatures for as long as mankind could draw or talk. Did you parents never tell you tales about the Boogie Man, ogres, Santa Claus (substitute whatever bedtime story suits your culture)? That doesn't mean that they are real.
Look at the list of medieval mythical creatures that man invented. https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/monster_list.html Would you argue that they are evidence of cryptozoology?

I keep an open mind about it, I listened to all, I can see pros and cons , but I am not conclusive either way.

That old chestnut, used by believers in woo since time began. Funny how people that claim to have an "open mind" seem to ignore rational explanations. Sure an open mind is a good thing to have, as long as it's not so open that your brains fall out.

[bknight]

http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/dragon
gillianren, all those ppl are lying you think?

what would convince me is how they knew to draw on caves long necks, for example..flying birds artefacts looking like later discovered flying dragons...

I could think of many similar descriptions of those drawings.  My descriptions aren't similar to those described, but they are descriptions.  Mankind has an infinite ability to conceive replications to images in their minds.
Slightly off topic but why do you believe that most those who have has close encounters with "UFO personnel" draw or give directions to draw very similar head shapes?  Possibly subliminal images from stories or images previously seen?
I am a religious person, but I don't believe that the Earth's history in encompassed by roughly 6000 years.  Humanoids have been first recognized at about 3.5 million years ago.  Will a humanoid be found that is older--perhaps.  But to propose that dinosaurs extinct at 65 million years ago and some humanoid from 3.5 million years ago co-habituated the Earth is simply ridiculous.