Charlie Duke Family Photo

[mako88sb]

This has been mentioned a few times by the hoaxheads about the absurdity of using a clear plastic bag to protect the family photo Charlie left behind. Somehow this small issue nullify's all the scientific proof it seems. I was hoping to find some info about just what type of plastic bag it was. Something he grabbed out of the kitchen or was it provided by NASA? I realize Charlie probably had no expectation that the image would last forever considering the harsh environment. From what I've read, it doesn't sound like the max high temp of the moon's surface would be enough to melt the plastic. I have "Moonwalker" but it's stashed away in the attic for now. Anyway, I don't recall him mentioning anything about the bag. I vaguely remember something about an astronaut placing an item in a location that would not be exposed to direct sunlight but I can't remember who it was . I don't think it's Charlie though because he placed the photo close to his boot print. Somewhat of a silly issue but it be nice to shut them up about it.

[dwight]

Oh man. The hoax believer crowd are really scraping the bottom of the barrel, aren't they? I would be certain that the photo has long since faded. However, for the short moments after Duke placed the photograph and bag on the surface and took the photo, nothing would have happened to it.

[onebigmonkey]

The photo was placed close to the LM at the end of EVA-3. It might be possible to work out exactly where from rover tracks in photos of other mementos Charlie photographed at the same time.

Given the proximity to the LM, chances are it was blown miles away when the ascent module launched.

[raven]

I wonder if the writing on the back would still be legible, being mostly shielded from the sun. Assuming it landed photo side up. Conversely, if it landed image down . . .

[12oh2alarm]

I'd be surprised if it wasn't a NASA plastic bag considering the efforts to keep the spacecraft clean of any and all dust particles, germs, flammables and whatnot.

[onebigmonkey]

I've just looked in my copy of Moonwalker and he discusses taking and placing the photo but not (that I can find at least) the bag he put it in.

He also mentioned that Irwin did the same on Apollo 15, which I didn't know

[onebigmonkey]

And from the oral history:

I took a picture of my family. Our kids were 5 and 7. And a little picture that had been taken in the backyard by one of the NASA guys, Ludy Benjamin, and we had that encased in Velcro (not Velcro) but—shrink-wrapped.

[bknight]

...

He also mentioned that Irwin did the same on Apollo 15, which I didn't know

Wait a moment, this guy Irwin who was allegedly going to Bill Kaysing "to spill the beans" left a photo on the Moon?  Too bad this information didn't come to Kaysing's or Blunder's attention.

[Luke Pemberton]

This has been mentioned a few times by the hoaxheads about the absurdity of using a clear plastic bag to protect the family photo Charlie left behind. Somehow this small issue nullify's all the scientific proof it seems.

Dwight hits the nail on the head, it really does stink of scraping the bottom of the barrel. I sort of agree, why would anyone leave it in a plastic bag to protect it, but then maybe it's just a natural thing to do given Earthbound experiences. Especially when leaving such a cherished article on another body. Maybe he just thought it would last a little longer. There's probably a simple explanation, only Charlie really has the answer, or possibly 12oh2alarm above.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't a NASA plastic bag considering the efforts to keep the spacecraft clean of any and all dust particles, germs, flammables and whatnot.

Maybe NASA was concerned that the photo could contaminate the craft or the astronauts so it was put in a plastic bag. Maybe putting it in plastic bag made it easier to handle in space gloves? Who knows? Do they realise how pathetic they have become? What was in those big rockets that they launched and the while world was watching? Yet they choose to find some nefarious meaning for a plastic bag. Some of them need to get off the interweb and move out of their mother's basement.

[bknight]

Dwight hits the nail on the head, it really does stink of scraping the bottom of the barrel. I sort of agree, why would anyone leave it in a plastic bag to protect it, but then maybe it's just a natural thing to do given Earthbound experiences. Especially when leaving such a cherished article on another body. Maybe he just thought it would last a little longer. There's probably a simple explanation, only Charlie really has the answer, or possibly 12oh2alarm above.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't a NASA plastic bag considering the efforts to keep the spacecraft clean of any and all dust particles, germs, flammables and whatnot.

Maybe NASA was concerned that the photo could contaminate the craft or the astronauts so it was put in a plastic bag. Maybe putting it in plastic bag made it easier to handle in space gloves? Who knows? Do they realise how pathetic they have become? What was in those big rockets that they launched and the while world was watching? Yet they choose to find some nefarious meaning for a plastic bag. Some of them need to get off the interweb and move out of their mother's basement, get a job.

FTFY
I do agree with the principles that many are younger and didn't experience Apollo in real time.  Given the technology of the past 10 years or so might give rise to the "they didn't have technology to travel to the moon".

[mako88sb]

Here's what the guy actually had to say:

"ok, have you tried putting a photograph inside of a polythene bag, and put it in the oven at its highest temperature yet, for just a minute or less, do this and tell me what happens please. we can go through many of the tests if you like together if you like.
cheers"

So obviously the max temp of an oven is almost twice that of what you would get on the moon. I was trying to find when high heat resistant plastic bags were available but my searching skills are in the same league as Neil Bakers I must admit.  From what I've found so far though, it sounds like most plastics are good past 120 C but some become unstable at 110 C. I'm not sure about the shrink wrap. In this image, it looks like the photo is just in a bag to me?

[onebigmonkey]

..and there may well have been some impact from exposure to the sun.

Here's a better quality version that I've cropped:



Look on the ground to the right of the right hand edge - looks a little like where the photograph landed initially and then perhaps curled a little.

The person making the claim would also do well to look at all the other photographs in that magazine

[gillianren]

Some of them need to get off the interweb and move out of their mother's basement.

There are perfectly legitimate reasons for still living with one's parents into adulthood.  Someone I know is living in his in-laws' basement right now, because he was recently fired.  Other people I know take care of parents with serious health problems.  The issue with these people is not that they live in their parents' basements.  It's that they're willfully ignorant.  You can do that just fine living on your own.

[Luke Pemberton]

"ok, have you tried putting a photograph inside of a polythene bag, and put it in the oven at its highest temperature yet, for just a minute or less, do this and tell me what happens please. we can go through many of the tests if you like together if you like.
cheers"

The old 'the Moon's surface is a searing hotplate' argument. They landed during the lunar dawn did they not? An oven also heats by convection, and is very good at it. In fact, anyone who has switched to a fan oven will know the effectiveness of forced current heating. I do, because I found it took about 40 minutes off the cooking time of a 3 lb chicken. There's no convective heating on the moon, so we cannot compare the situation to an oven.

That only leaves radiation and conduction. I assume that the back of the photograph is white, so it will reflect IR from the Moon's surface reasonably well. this leaves conduction. Two things (a) how good it the thermal contact between the regolith and bag? (b) regolith is a poor conductor of heat.

http://www.spaceanswers.com/space-exploration/how-did-lunar-astronauts-survive-the-extreme-temperatures-on-the-moon/

[JayUtah]

There]'s no convective heating on the moon, so we cannot compare the situation to an oven.

But that's exactly what David Groves did to test the durability of film in space.  And he has a PhD in physics, so you're wrong.