Author Topic: Apollo and Stars  (Read 72764 times)

Offline tarkus

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #135 on: October 21, 2015, 10:10:38 PM »
LRV camera continued filming? and filmed the Earth? I would love to see that !!!

Then go look it up.
Who claims shows meantime I refuse to believe that.

I'm not going to waste my time providing a link so that you can ignore it, deny it, or move the goalposts.
I long for a hoax believer to debate with some intellectual honesty.
If you show that filmed the lunar rover to Earth, I will recognize their effort and admit that he is right, otherwise you become like a boastful liar.

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #136 on: October 21, 2015, 10:17:50 PM »
LRV camera continued filming? and filmed the Earth? I would love to see that !!!

Then go look it up.
Who claims shows meantime I refuse to believe that.

I'm not going to waste my time providing a link so that you can ignore it, deny it, or move the goalposts.
I long for a hoax believer to debate with some intellectual honesty.
If you show that filmed the lunar rover to Earth, I will recognize their effort and admit that he is right, otherwise you become like a boastful liar.
That is awfully strong language, especially since you won't go looking for the video.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline tarkus

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #137 on: October 21, 2015, 10:26:18 PM »
LRV camera continued filming? and filmed the Earth? I would love to see that !!!

Then go look it up.
Who claims shows meantime I refuse to believe that.

I'm not going to waste my time providing a link so that you can ignore it, deny it, or move the goalposts.
I long for a hoax believer to debate with some intellectual honesty.
If you show that filmed the lunar rover to Earth, I will recognize their effort and admit that he is right, otherwise you become like a boastful liar.
That is awfully strong language, especially since you won't go looking for the video.
You understand very well that send someone to look for something nonexistent is teasing ... no? everything else is poor excuses, who claims shows or silent.

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #138 on: October 21, 2015, 10:41:07 PM »
LRV camera continued filming? and filmed the Earth? I would love to see that !!!

Then go look it up.
Who claims shows meantime I refuse to believe that.

I'm not going to waste my time providing a link so that you can ignore it, deny it, or move the goalposts.
I long for a hoax believer to debate with some intellectual honesty.
If you show that filmed the lunar rover to Earth, I will recognize their effort and admit that he is right, otherwise you become like a boastful liar.
That is awfully strong language, especially since you won't go looking for the video.
You understand very well that send someone to look for something nonexistent is teasing ... no? everything else is poor excuses, who claims shows or silent.
What are you saying is nonexistent?
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #139 on: October 21, 2015, 11:17:00 PM »
You understand very well that send someone to look for something nonexistent is teasing ... no? everything else is poor excuses, who claims shows or silent.

Get over yourself.  You've made a whole string of claims that amount to denying the existence of certain kinds of evidence.  Yet when that evidence is pushed under you very nose, you still deny it.  That behavior fairly excuses anyone else from any obligation to produce arbitrary evidence for you.  You've made claims that imply you've studied the Apollo evidence thoroughly.  Yet it is quite clear you have not.  When you can demonstrate even a cursory familiarity with the pertinent evidence, then you can oblige people to produce obscure bits of it that become relevant.  But when you stand there ignorant as a child and unwilling to be taught in any respect, you don't get to claim any sort of moral high ground.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline dwight

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #140 on: October 22, 2015, 12:20:00 AM »
LRV camera continued filming? and filmed the Earth? I would love to see that !!!

Then go look it up.
Who claims shows meantime I refuse to believe that.

I'm not going to waste my time providing a link so that you can ignore it, deny it, or move the goalposts.
I long for a hoax believer to debate with some intellectual honesty.
If you show that filmed the lunar rover to Earth, I will recognize their effort and admit that he is right, otherwise you become like a boastful liar.

Care to have a wager on whether there exists TV footage of the earth as shot by the GCTA from the lunar surface? Say, €400,000? Perhaps you want to peruse through a book called "Live TV From the Moon" before taking on that bet.
"Honeysuckle TV on line!"

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #141 on: October 22, 2015, 12:20:54 AM »
LRV camera continued filming? and filmed the Earth? I would love to see that !!!

Then go look it up.
Who claims shows meantime I refuse to believe that.

I'm not going to waste my time providing a link so that you can ignore it, deny it, or move the goalposts.
I long for a hoax believer to debate with some intellectual honesty.
If you show that filmed the lunar rover to Earth, I will recognize their effort and admit that he is right, otherwise you become like a boastful liar.
That is awfully strong language, especially since you won't go looking for the video.
You understand very well that send someone to look for something nonexistent is teasing ... no? everything else is poor excuses, who claims shows or silent.

I'll repeat it for good measure: Lunar rovers filmed Earth on several occasions, including after the ascent module returned to orbit. Those views of Earth are time and date specific.

EVA footage is not hard to find. How come you find it so difficult?

Offline Sus_pilot

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #142 on: October 22, 2015, 01:49:33 AM »

Tarkus, does it not occur to you that the Sun moves across the Lunar sky?  I believe that the solar panel "chased" the Sun into the Lunar afternoon and stopped there.  Surveyor III could not be "awakened" after the 14 day cold-soak it received during the Lunar night, so the Solar panel remained where it was when the lander shut down.
That's exactly right -- you beat me to it. This is early local morning, so the sun is in the east. The photo is taken looking roughly northwest, so the solar panel is still pointed to the west where the sun set before the Surveyor died.

The Apollo 12 site is near the moon's equator in the moon's western hemisphere (west of the prime meridian that runs down the middle of the near side) so the earth is east of overhead. And because the earth remains almost stationary in the lunar sky, Surveyor's high-gain antenna still points in that direction -- the same direction as the high-gain S-band antenna in the background next to the Apollo 12 LM.

You know, I hadn't noticed that before. This is why I take the time to rebut hoaxers; I almost always learn or at least notice something new even though they never do.
If you look closely, both panels have identical lunar probe inclination in both photos ... too coincidental.




Moreover, if I wanted to make the most of a fixed solar panel, would place it parallel to the ground and not inclined as seen in the image.

First, it would not be hard to figure out what angles to place the high gain antenna and the solar panel.  I suspect that the engineers did just that to bring the highest order of verisimilitude to the training.  These missions were not cheap in either effort or expense, so making the training as realistic as possible would be a benefit.

As for the solar panel, the most efficient use would be as close to s right angle to the sun's rays as possible.  The panel was motorized.  Assuming that you don't live in the equatorial regions, look at any solar array - even the fixed ones are at an angle to optimize their exposure to the sun.  Many change their Angie during the year to account for the change in the sun's declination as the seasons pass.  And some arrays pivot on two axis during the day to take the best advantage of the light.

Before you say anything about this is the 2010's and they didn't have the computing power back then, this (although I couldn't draw you the circuit) can all be done with analog feedback circuits.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #143 on: October 22, 2015, 02:57:16 AM »
Moreover, if I wanted to make the most of a fixed solar panel, would place it parallel to the ground and not inclined as seen in the image.

A classic hoaxie mistake, namely using what they think should be the case rather than applying any thought or research behind it. PV solar panels are hardly a rare sight nowadays. How many PV solar arrays have you seen, Tarkus, that are laid flat on the ground?

I'm feeling generous, so to save you some effort, click here:
http://bfy.tw/2PUL

Count them up and come back to us with the number that are laid flat, compared to the number that are tilted. Or shall we just skip all of that and add solar energy to the ever-growing list of subjects that you are happy to talk about without knowing anything about?

By the way.....we are still waiting for you to answer some questions.

1. What quantity of Martian meteorites do we posses?
2. What traces of a high-speed transition through Earth's atmosphere would be left on a rock that originated from the Moon or Mars?
3. Do you think that these traces are present or absent in the Apollo samples?
4. Do you know if we are in possession of "Moon meteorites" (that is, rocks that originated from the Moon and have been found on Earth)?
5. Do you think that those Moon meteorites will be the same as the Apollo samples?

« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 03:55:37 AM by Zakalwe »
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline ka9q

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #144 on: October 22, 2015, 03:20:55 AM »
Moreover, if I wanted to make the most of a fixed solar panel, would place it parallel to the ground and not inclined as seen in the image.
Except it's not a fixed solar panel. It took me all of two minutes to find the following in the Surveyor press kit:
Quote
An antenna/solar panel positioner atop the mast supports and rotates the planar array antenna and solar panel in either direction along four axes. This freedom of movement allows orienting the antenna toward earth and the solar panel toward the Sun.

Offline Apollo 957

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #145 on: October 22, 2015, 06:22:39 AM »
Moreover, if I wanted to make the most of a fixed solar panel, would place it parallel to the ground and not inclined as seen in the image.

Please tell us WHY you would do this. In detail.

For what it's worth, a number of my neighbours have domestic solar panels, and NONE of these are fitted parallel to the ground.....

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #146 on: October 22, 2015, 07:19:40 AM »
Moreover, if I wanted to make the most of a fixed solar panel, would place it parallel to the ground and not inclined as seen in the image.

A classic hoaxie mistake, namely using what they think should be the case rather than applying any thought or research behind it. PV solar panels are hardly a rare sight nowadays. How many PV solar arrays have you seen, Tarkus, that are laid flat on the ground?

I'm feeling generous, so to save you some effort, click here:
http://bfy.tw/2PUL



Count them up and come back to us with the number that are laid flat, compared to the number that are tilted. Or shall we just skip all of that and add solar energy to the ever-growing list of subjects that you are happy to talk about without knowing anything about?

By the way.....we are still waiting for you to answer some questions.

1. What quantity of Martian meteorites do we posses?
2. What traces of a high-speed transition through Earth's atmosphere would be left on a rock that originated from the Moon or Mars?
3. Do you think that these traces are present or absent in the Apollo samples?
4. Do you know if we are in possession of "Moon meteorites" (that is, rocks that originated from the Moon and have been found on Earth)?
5. Do you think that those Moon meteorites will be the same as the Apollo samples?

ingenious coding of a web request.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #147 on: October 22, 2015, 08:16:50 AM »
Moreover, if I wanted to make the most of a fixed solar panel, would place it parallel to the ground and not inclined as seen in the image.

The reason Earth has seasons and different climates at the poles and the tropics is the very reason you would not do this if you were going to mount a fixed solar panel and get the most power output from it, tarkus....
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline sts60

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #148 on: October 22, 2015, 08:33:28 AM »
Maybe someone one can check me on this, but it seems to me that the solar array/antenna axis is substantially rotated to the right (CCW looking down at the vehicle) of the TV camera mast in the ground training picture as compared to the EVA position.  In fact, I'm sure of it; look at the position of the nearest landing leg in the two images (AP12-KSC-69PC-546 and AS12-48-7135/6).  tarkus complains because "both panels have identical lunar probe inclinations" between the photos, but it's really not even close; the angle is only nearly identical with respect to the photographer's point of view.

If I am not hallucinating, this is yet another thing tarkus gets wrong.

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #149 on: October 22, 2015, 09:01:09 AM »
Maybe someone one can check me on this, but it seems to me that the solar array/antenna axis is substantially rotated to the right (CCW looking down at the vehicle) of the TV camera mast in the ground training picture as compared to the EVA position.  In fact, I'm sure of it; look at the position of the nearest landing leg in the two images (AP12-KSC-69PC-546 and AS12-48-7135/6).  tarkus complains because "both panels have identical lunar probe inclinations" between the photos, but it's really not even close; the angle is only nearly identical with respect to the photographer's point of view.

If I am not hallucinating, this is yet another thing tarkus gets wrong.
If one quickly looks a the image as tarkus probably does, the angle of the two panels is similar, but upon closer examination they aren't identical.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan