Author Topic: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON  (Read 146157 times)

Offline Abaddon

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #390 on: October 27, 2015, 08:23:48 PM »
Tarkus

Since the moon is full or thereabouts, how is it that the detail of the lunar surface is washed out? How is it that no stars are present?

ETA: Taken in the last 10 minutes.

Offline Abaddon

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #391 on: October 27, 2015, 08:48:14 PM »
And a few minutes later, this one with the very same camera...

Offline Abaddon

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #392 on: October 27, 2015, 08:53:46 PM »
Tarkus, i am wondering what exactly is your explanation for the differing apparent sizes of the moon? Same camera, same time roughly, but different apparent sizes. Why do you think that is?

Offline bknight

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #393 on: October 27, 2015, 09:45:04 PM »
Tarkus, i am wondering what exactly is your explanation for the differing apparent sizes of the moon? Same camera, same time roughly, but different apparent sizes. Why do you think that is?
Obviously a NASA shill taking fake pictures. ::) 

hehe
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
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Offline bknight

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #394 on: October 27, 2015, 10:23:40 PM »
Tarkus

Since the moon is full or thereabouts, how is it that the detail of the lunar surface is washed out? How is it that no stars are present?

ETA: Taken in the last 10 minutes.
This shill can't upload an image from the cell to the forum, but mine looks very similar to the first!
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Abaddon

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #395 on: October 27, 2015, 11:22:49 PM »
Tarkus

Since the moon is full or thereabouts, how is it that the detail of the lunar surface is washed out? How is it that no stars are present?

ETA: Taken in the last 10 minutes.
This shill can't upload an image from the cell to the forum, but mine looks very similar to the first!
Really? Instructions if you wish, it ain't intuitive.

ETA: Not the fault of LO, it is the fault of how the software works.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 11:24:50 PM by Abaddon »

Offline bknight

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #396 on: October 28, 2015, 12:27:08 AM »
Tarkus

Since the moon is full or thereabouts, how is it that the detail of the lunar surface is washed out? How is it that no stars are present?u

ETA: Taken in the last 10 minutes.
This shill can't upload an image from the cell to the forum, but mine looks very similar to the first!
Really? Instructions if you wish, it ain't intuitive.

ETA: Not the fault of LO, it is the fault of how the software works.
File is too large
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Grashtel

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #397 on: October 28, 2015, 12:49:32 AM »
Tarkus

Since the moon is full or thereabouts, how is it that the detail of the lunar surface is washed out? How is it that no stars are present?u

ETA: Taken in the last 10 minutes.
This shill can't upload an image from the cell to the forum, but mine looks very similar to the first!
Really? Instructions if you wish, it ain't intuitive.

ETA: Not the fault of LO, it is the fault of how the software works.
File is too large
Which means you need to resize the image, if you are taking it directly off of your phone its probably gonna be at full resolution for the phone's camera, which is freaking huge for posting to the web (ie unless you have a monitor the size of a big screen TV you will only see a fraction of it, and its a big file too).  The Phone's gallery app probably has the option of saving the image at a size suitable for posting for the web or you can open it up in an image editor (if you have Windows then Paint is sufficent unless you have something better) and resize it there, somewhere in the order of a thousand pixels at the longest dimension is usually a decent size for posting
"Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those who don't understand it." -Florence Ambrose

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #398 on: October 28, 2015, 04:27:25 AM »
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 04:29:32 AM by Zakalwe »
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Offline Count Zero

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #399 on: October 28, 2015, 05:11:54 AM »
Hi Tarkus,
Sorry it’s taken so long to write back.  I’ve got a 7 year-old who is VERY excited by Halloween.   :)

You are correct that most of the far side of the Moon was in shadow at the time AS16-M-3021 was taken:



However, look at this polar view:



Everything above the red line is technically the far side.
The orange line shows the longitude (103.7° East) that Apollo 16 was over at the time the photo was taken. 
As you can see, part of the far side was still in daylight, and that is the part that Apollo 16 was over.  Apollo 16 wasn’t behind the Moon at the time; it was off to one side – but it could see part of the far side (it could also see the Earth from where it was).

Now then, projecting a 3D situation onto a 2D monitor causes problems.  In this case, the circumference of the Moon in the polar view, above, is the equator (0° latitude) and Apollo 16 was over 12° North at this time, so to show this in the above picture the right end of the orange line should be ~1cm above the surface of your monitor.

If you don’t mind, I’m going to tilt the point of view so that the plane of Apollo 16’s orbit matches the plane of your monitor, and rotate it so that the line to the spacecraft is level, because believe me, drawing these things with MS Paint is a real bitch.



There.  Now you can see the path Apollo 16 took after the Trans-Earth Injection (TEI) burn that sent them home.  At the time AS16-M-3021 was taken, Apollo 16 was ~1,200km above the surface of the Moon (I think someone asked that a few pages ago).
As I explained in my previous post, from this close to the Moon, the horizon is much closer so that, although you see the Moon as a sphere, you don’t see an entire hemisphere.  You can test this for yourself by holding a fútbol at arm’s length, and then bring it closer to your eye.  For a regulation FIFA fútbol, your eye would have to be ~7.5cm from the surface of the ball to correctly model the distance from Apollo 16 to the Moon’s surface.

In the above illustration, only that portion of the Moon inside the orange triangle can be seen in AS16-M-3021, and (as you can see) most of that is in daylight.

The illustration below re-centers the point of view over 12° North, 103.7° East, the spot Apollo 16 was over:



On the left is the ~orthographic view, showing the whole hemisphere centered on 12° North, 103.7° East.  Because of the shortened horizon, only the area within the orange circle could be seen – and most of this is in daylight.  The right-hand image is the view from 1,200km above the surface, and it matches AS16-M-3021.



Note that in this picture, I’ve drawn the 90° East longitude line (Please excuse the crude-ness - it's hand-drawn with MS Paint, but is accurate to within a few pixels).  To the left of it is the near side visible from Earth.  To the right of it is the far side.

So, in summary:
-   Most of the far side was in shadow, but not all of it.
-   Apollo 16 was not behind the Moon at the time AS16-M-3021 was taken, but rather was off to one side.
-   Apollo 16 was over a part of the Moon that was still in daylight.
-   From where it was, Apollo 16 could see parts of both the near side and the far side of the Moon.

If any of this is confusing, just look at the pictures again.  Hope this helps.  Cheers!
"What makes one step a giant leap is all the steps before."

Offline Paul

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Offline bknight

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #401 on: October 28, 2015, 07:58:22 AM »

Which means you need to resize the image, if you are taking it directly off of your phone its probably gonna be at full resolution for the phone's camera, which is freaking huge for posting to the web (ie unless you have a monitor the size of a big screen TV you will only see a fraction of it, and its a big file too).  The Phone's gallery app probably has the option of saving the image at a size suitable for posting for the web or you can open it up in an image editor (if you have Windows then Paint is sufficent unless you have something better) and resize it there, somewhere in the order of a thousand pixels at the longest dimension is usually a decent size for posting
Size I know, not sure about the gallery app which is why it wasn't posted.
ETA Android, Gallery I don't observe a function to save as?  Any help would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 08:22:02 AM by bknight »
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #402 on: October 28, 2015, 08:29:03 AM »

snip...



more snip...


These are great - what package are you using to get the images?

Offline Count Zero

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #403 on: October 28, 2015, 10:17:29 AM »
These are great - what package are you using to get the images?

This web site:  Earth and Moon Viewer
Great site.  I was able to determine the location of Apollo 16 just by tweaking the latitude, longitude & altitude until it matched the photo, then checked the photo info to see if I was right.  Score!  :)
"What makes one step a giant leap is all the steps before."

Offline Abaddon

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Re: FAR SIDE OF THE MOON
« Reply #404 on: October 28, 2015, 11:04:24 AM »
Tarkus

Since the moon is full or thereabouts, how is it that the detail of the lunar surface is washed out? How is it that no stars are present?

ETA: Taken in the last 10 minutes.
This shill can't upload an image from the cell to the forum, but mine looks very similar to the first!
https://imageresizer.codeplex.com/ handy quick resizing tool