ApolloHoax.net

Apollo Discussions => The Hoax Theory => Topic started by: Drewid on August 25, 2015, 03:08:28 AM

Title: Quora
Post by: Drewid on August 25, 2015, 03:08:28 AM
Quora seems to have a low level of HB presence, Mostly the same-old-same-old, (no stars, fluttering flag) but there are a couple of interesting characters.

There's a wonderfully hardcore Jack White desciple, who does an amusing line in comedy insults:
http://www.quora.com/How-many-photos-were-taken-on-the-surface-of-the-moon-during-the-six-Apollo-missions/answer/Ken-ONeill-3/comment/12303503 (http://www.quora.com/How-many-photos-were-taken-on-the-surface-of-the-moon-during-the-six-Apollo-missions/answer/Ken-ONeill-3/comment/12303503)

and another who is at least asking for math
http://www.quora.com/Did-the-Lunar-Module-of-Apollo-11-have-enough-technology-and-propelling-system-on-board-to-dock-with-the-Command-Module-in-lunar-orbit/answer/Drew-Northcott/comment/12496925?__snids__=1306226010&__nsrc__=4#comment12496925 (http://www.quora.com/Did-the-Lunar-Module-of-Apollo-11-have-enough-technology-and-propelling-system-on-board-to-dock-with-the-Command-Module-in-lunar-orbit/answer/Drew-Northcott/comment/12496925?__snids__=1306226010&__nsrc__=4#comment12496925)

I've not done any math like this but it doesn't look too tricky. The thing I'm not sure about is the energy density of the fuel and the volume of the tanks and how that relates to the specific impulse. 

I'm quite happy to admit it's a bit beyond me without some help,  that sort of thing isn't my field really.  Anyone want to join in?
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Zakalwe on August 25, 2015, 04:49:46 AM

and another who is at least asking for math
http://www.quora.com/Did-the-Lunar-Module-of-Apollo-11-have-enough-technology-and-propelling-system-on-board-to-dock-with-the-Command-Module-in-lunar-orbit/answer/Drew-Northcott/comment/12496925?__snids__=1306226010&__nsrc__=4#comment12496925 (http://www.quora.com/Did-the-Lunar-Module-of-Apollo-11-have-enough-technology-and-propelling-system-on-board-to-dock-with-the-Command-Module-in-lunar-orbit/answer/Drew-Northcott/comment/12496925?__snids__=1306226010&__nsrc__=4#comment12496925)



Its the old argument from disbelief in action though; "The fuel storage units look remarkably human sized, and therefore it seems that it could barely push the lunar module up a few hundred meters". I can't understand, and won't make any effort to understand, therefore it must be fake.  Throwing maths at a person like this is useless because 1) they won't understand them; 2) they won't admit to their lack of understanding; 3)they are trying to make you do the hard work, which they invariably will hand-wave away due to points 1 and 2.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: bknight on August 25, 2015, 07:49:20 AM
...

and another who is at least asking for math
http://www.quora.com/Did-the-Lunar-Module-of-Apollo-11-have-enough-technology-and-propelling-system-on-board-to-dock-with-the-Command-Module-in-lunar-orbit/answer/Drew-Northcott/comment/12496925?__snids__=1306226010&__nsrc__=4#comment12496925 (http://www.quora.com/Did-the-Lunar-Module-of-Apollo-11-have-enough-technology-and-propelling-system-on-board-to-dock-with-the-Command-Module-in-lunar-orbit/answer/Drew-Northcott/comment/12496925?__snids__=1306226010&__nsrc__=4#comment12496925)

I've not done any math like this but it doesn't look too tricky. The thing I'm not sure about is the energy density of the fuel and the volume of the tanks and how that relates to the specific impulse. 

I'm quite happy to admit it's a bit beyond me without some help,  that sort of thing isn't my field really.  Anyone want to join in?

Bob B. has a webpage that gives most of the information for A17, along with the calculations.

http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/LM-ascent.htm
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: onebigmonkey on August 25, 2015, 11:55:52 AM
I'm agog at the regurgitation of the 'photographs on the footpad' nonsense.

How can he not see the large piece of foil in the background that is gold on one side and silvery on the other?
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: bknight on August 25, 2015, 12:00:26 PM
I'm agog at the regurgitation of the 'photographs on the footpad' nonsense.

How can he not see the large piece of foil in the background that is gold on one side and silvery on the other?
It was Jack, what more need any rational person say.

EDIT:  It looks to me like the "head" of the man is actually a reflection of the LM leg.  And Jack "couldn't understand" why NASA never wrote back!!!
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Bob B. on August 25, 2015, 02:32:17 PM
Bob B. has a webpage that gives most of the information for A17, along with the calculations.

http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/LM-ascent.htm

That article was written specifically to debunk the "the fuel tanks look too small to me so it must be fake" argument.  It is by no means a new claim.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: smartcooky on August 25, 2015, 04:08:04 PM
Bob B. has a webpage that gives most of the information for A17, along with the calculations.

http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/LM-ascent.htm

That article was written specifically to debunk the "the fuel tanks look too small to me so it must be fake" argument.  It is by no means a new claim.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/JREF/Georgio-ICE-FC.png)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/JREF/Georgio-IDU-FC.png)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/JREF/Georgio-IDK-FC.png)

These are all very common memes of the Apollo Hoax / Ancient Aliens / Junk Archaeology / NASA fakery community
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: bknight on August 25, 2015, 04:27:35 PM
I've seen him on UFO/Ancient aliens programs.  But I didn't listen that close nor pay attention to his claims.  I put him right in line with Stanton Friedman. ::)
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Bob B. on August 25, 2015, 06:41:47 PM
I can't bring myself to watch Ancient Aliens.  It only takes about 10 minutes before I want to start throwing stuff at the TV.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: bknight on August 25, 2015, 07:38:52 PM
I can't bring myself to watch Ancient Aliens.  It only takes about 10 minutes before I want to start throwing stuff at the TV.
Exactly, that's why I don't remember this guys name, but the hair do is a dead give away.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: smartcooky on August 25, 2015, 07:47:25 PM
I can't bring myself to watch Ancient Aliens.  It only takes about 10 minutes before I want to start throwing stuff at the TV.

Well, you should try watching "America Unearthed". In it, the host Scott Wolter (a self proclaimed "Indiana Jones" type character) travels the length and breadth of America, unearthing supposed legends, myths, stories and artefacts and reaching extraordinary, and far-fetched conclusions from the  flimsiest of evidence, and sometimes, from no evidence at all.

When I first saw the programme a few episodes into Season 1, I made the mistake of taking it seriously, but when I couldn't see how he came to some if his conclusions I decided to do a bit of on-line research, and came across a guy called Jason Colovito, a debunker of junk science and revisionist history. It didn't take long for me to realise that I had been fooled, and realised that "America Unearthed" was just junk archaeology of the worst kind.

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/america-unearthed.html

I have now become a regular reader of Jason's blog. He is to Junk Archaeology what Jay is to Apollo Hoax Belief, and Phil Plait is to Junk Science; a voice of reason in an ocean of stupid!


ETA: handy hint


(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/ApolloHoax/Giorgio-Tsoukalos.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/ApolloHoax/Bill%20Birnes.jpeg)
If you see either of these two people interviewed in a TV programme you are watching, you can pretty much stop right there..

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/ApolloHoax/index.1.jpg)
If you see this person being interviewed, then proceed with caution and a large pinch of salt.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: smartcooky on August 25, 2015, 08:58:15 PM
I can't bring myself to watch Ancient Aliens.  It only takes about 10 minutes before I want to start throwing stuff at the TV.
Exactly, that's why I don't remember this guys name, but the hair do is a dead give away.

be careful not to get him mixed up with this guy

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/JREF/Londo.jpg)
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: raven on August 25, 2015, 09:13:31 PM
Ze ambassador for ze Centauri Republic iz most offended to be compared to zat, zat foolish human!
For one, ve are much snazzier dressers!
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Bob B. on August 25, 2015, 09:16:45 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/ApolloHoax/Bill%20Birnes.jpeg)

^^^ This dude. ::)

I saw a few episodes of a show he use to be in, UFO Hunters, I think.  It was always the same thing.  They'd go out and investigate an alleged UFO incident, find absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support the story, and his final conclusion would be... "Since we found no evidence to disprove it, it's still possible it really happened."
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: bknight on August 25, 2015, 09:27:11 PM
I can't bring myself to watch Ancient Aliens.  It only takes about 10 minutes before I want to start throwing stuff at the TV.
Exactly, that's why I don't remember this guys name, but the hair do is a dead give away.

be careful not to get him mixed up with this guy

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/JREF/Londo.jpg)

Oh come on now my eyes aren't that BAD.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: bknight on August 25, 2015, 09:34:01 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/ApolloHoax/Bill%20Birnes.jpeg)

^^^ This dude. ::)

I saw a few episodes of a show he use to be in, UFO Hunters, I think.  It was always the same thing.  They'd go out and investigate an alleged UFO incident, find absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support the story, and his final conclusion would be... "Since we found no evidence to disprove it, it's still possible it really happened."
How did I miss these gems?  Since you gave a synopsis, I'll not go and try to find any episodes, but I did look to find out who he was.  The article gave some reasons the show was canceled.
http://www.realufos.net/2010/11/bill-birnes-why-ufo-hunters-was-pulled.html
The Dulce episode, something to do with a cow fetus with a human shaped head anger the big wigs!!!  It does it for me.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: raven on August 25, 2015, 09:44:46 PM
Didn't the 'alien in a jar' in Firefly, in-universe, turn out to be a cow foetus?
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: smartcooky on August 25, 2015, 10:37:56 PM
Ze ambassador for ze Centauri Republic iz most offended to be compared to zat, zat foolish human!
For one, ve are much snazzier dressers!



You have Londo Mollari's speech style spot on.

I have just been re-watching (and re-enjoying) Babylon 5 on "The Zone"; our version of a sci-fi/fantasy/horror channel. I have to say that considering it is mid-1990's vintage (OMG, has it really been 20 years?), the look, style and CGI have really stood the test of time a lot better than some of its contemporaries.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Drewid on August 26, 2015, 01:03:10 AM

and another who is at least asking for math
http://www.quora.com/Did-the-Lunar-Module-of-Apollo-11-have-enough-technology-and-propelling-system-on-board-to-dock-with-the-Command-Module-in-lunar-orbit/answer/Drew-Northcott/comment/12496925?__snids__=1306226010&__nsrc__=4#comment12496925 (http://www.quora.com/Did-the-Lunar-Module-of-Apollo-11-have-enough-technology-and-propelling-system-on-board-to-dock-with-the-Command-Module-in-lunar-orbit/answer/Drew-Northcott/comment/12496925?__snids__=1306226010&__nsrc__=4#comment12496925)



Its the old argument from disbelief in action though; "The fuel storage units look remarkably human sized, and therefore it seems that it could barely push the lunar module up a few hundred meters". I can't understand, and won't make any effort to understand, therefore it must be fake.  Throwing maths at a person like this is useless because 1) they won't understand them; 2) they won't admit to their lack of understanding; 3)they are trying to make you do the hard work, which they invariably will hand-wave away due to points 1 and 2.

The argument isn't for the benefit  of the person doing the argument though. Someone this far gone is way beyond help.  It's for the later viewers who are slightly higher up the bell curve who might otherwise get suckered in.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Drewid on August 26, 2015, 03:13:41 AM
Ze ambassador for ze Centauri Republic iz most offended to be compared to zat, zat foolish human!
For one, ve are much snazzier dressers!



You have Londo Mollari's speech style spot on.

I have just been re-watching (and re-enjoying) Babylon 5 on "The Zone"; our version of a sci-fi/fantasy/horror channel. I have to say that considering it is mid-1990's vintage (OMG, has it really been 20 years?), the look, style and CGI have really stood the test of time a lot better than some of its contemporaries.

The storylines were pretty strong as well, (apart from the slightly silly ending).
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: raven on August 26, 2015, 03:25:19 AM
I tried watching it for the first time a couple years ago, and . . . eh, something about the acting felt off for a lot of the characters, especially the human ones, and specially especially Commander Sinclair. So dry, it was like eating unbuttered toast. Without anything to drink.
I got a soft spot for Garibaldi for his love of Golden Age Cartoons, and I really liked Londo, his speech patterns and general hammyness were quite a treat, but it was not enough to keep me going. I think I quit around when Psychic Chekov showed up.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Bob B. on August 26, 2015, 11:09:02 AM
I tried watching it for the first time a couple years ago, and . . . eh, something about the acting felt off for a lot of the characters, especially the human ones, and specially especially Commander Sinclair. So dry, it was like eating unbuttered toast. Without anything to drink.

You're not alone in that opinion.  The Sinclair character was replaced after the first season, though he did return for a couple guest appearances later in the series.  The new station commander was Captain Sheridan played by Bruce Boxleitner.  The acting improved a lot in the second season.  The third and fourth seasons I thought were by far the best.  I usually tell people they just have to endure the first season to get the background story, then they can let things build after that.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: gillianren on August 26, 2015, 11:41:20 AM
Didn't the 'alien in a jar' in Firefly, in-universe, turn out to be a cow foetus?

It did indeed!
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: bknight on August 26, 2015, 12:02:05 PM
Didn't the 'alien in a jar' in Firefly, in-universe, turn out to be a cow foetus?

It did indeed!

Seems likely the show had a direction to cow fetuses.  Since I didn't watch any, were there at least one pertaining to cow mutilations/surgery(LOL)?
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: twik on August 26, 2015, 03:07:01 PM
I can't bring myself to watch Ancient Aliens.  It only takes about 10 minutes before I want to start throwing stuff at the TV.

Well, you should try watching "America Unearthed". In it, the host Scott Wolter (a self proclaimed "Indiana Jones" type character) travels the length and breadth of America, unearthing supposed legends, myths, stories and artefacts and reaching extraordinary, and far-fetched conclusions from the  flimsiest of evidence, and sometimes, from no evidence at all.

When I first saw the programme a few episodes into Season 1, I made the mistake of taking it seriously, but when I couldn't see how he came to some if his conclusions I decided to do a bit of on-line research, and came across a guy called Jason Colovito, a debunker of junk science and revisionist history. It didn't take long for me to realise that I had been fooled, and realised that "America Unearthed" was just junk archaeology of the worst kind.

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/america-unearthed.html

I have now become a regular reader of Jason's blog. He is to Junk Archaeology what Jay is to Apollo Hoax Belief, and Phil Plait is to Junk Science; a voice of reason in an ocean of stupid!


ETA: handy hint


(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/ApolloHoax/Giorgio-Tsoukalos.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/ApolloHoax/Bill%20Birnes.jpeg)
If you see either of these two people interviewed in a TV programme you are watching, you can pretty much stop right there..

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/ApolloHoax/index.1.jpg)
If you see this person being interviewed, then proceed with caution and a large pinch of salt.
Why is it when there is so much actual wonderment in the world of archaeology, people have to hoke it up?
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: raven on August 26, 2015, 03:15:14 PM
Racism. Seriously. Light pink people found browner people did these amazing things, and, rather then change their world view that brown people couldn't do neat stuff too, nope, must be aliens/demons/what have you.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: gillianren on August 26, 2015, 03:22:09 PM
Seems likely the show had a direction to cow fetuses.  Since I didn't watch any, were there at least one pertaining to cow mutilations/surgery(LOL)?

Never came up.  Can't see how it would have.  That one "alien" was about the only mention of them, and it was a freak show attraction.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: bknight on August 26, 2015, 03:25:01 PM

Never came up.  Can't see how it would have.  That one "alien" was about the only mention of them, and it was a freak show attraction.
Ok, I guess that would have been to earthy for a UFO show.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: gillianren on August 26, 2015, 05:21:32 PM

Never came up.  Can't see how it would have.  That one "alien" was about the only mention of them, and it was a freak show attraction.
Ok, I guess that would have been to earthy for a UFO show.

We must be talking about different shows.  Firefly is fiction.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: bknight on August 26, 2015, 05:24:42 PM

Never came up.  Can't see how it would have.  That one "alien" was about the only mention of them, and it was a freak show attraction.
Ok, I guess that would have been to earthy for a UFO show.

We must be talking about different shows.  Firefly is fiction.
I thought it was about UFO, my bad.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: mako88sb on August 27, 2015, 02:52:59 PM
I tried watching it for the first time a couple years ago, and . . . eh, something about the acting felt off for a lot of the characters, especially the human ones, and specially especially Commander Sinclair. So dry, it was like eating unbuttered toast. Without anything to drink.

You're not alone in that opinion.  The Sinclair character was replaced after the first season, though he did return for a couple guest appearances later in the series.  The new station commander was Captain Sheridan played by Bruce Boxleitner.  The acting improved a lot in the second season.  The third and fourth seasons I thought were by far the best.  I usually tell people they just have to endure the first season to get the background story, then they can let things build after that.

From what I've read, there was a great deal of animosity between the actors that portrayed Garibaldi and Sinclair and it got to the point were one of them would have to go. As you say, a big improvement with Captain Sheridan taking over.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Nowhere Man on August 27, 2015, 06:37:00 PM
From what I've read, there was a great deal of animosity between the actors that portrayed Garibaldi and Sinclair and it got to the point were one of them would have to go. As you say, a big improvement with Captain Sheridan taking over.
According to Michael O'Hare's WP page, it was his increasing problems with his mental health and need for extended treatment that led to his being written out.

I'd also heard, at the time, that the network execs wanted someone more action-hero-y than O'Hare, and brought in Boxleitner.

Fred
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Bob B. on August 27, 2015, 06:41:22 PM
I'd also heard, at the time, that the network execs wanted someone more action-hero-y than O'Hare, and brought in Boxleitner.

That's the story I heard.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Cat Not Included on August 27, 2015, 06:53:22 PM

Never came up.  Can't see how it would have.  That one "alien" was about the only mention of them, and it was a freak show attraction.
Ok, I guess that would have been to earthy for a UFO show.

We must be talking about different shows.  Firefly is fiction.
I thought it was about UFO, my bad.
But it DOES have quite a bit about cows.  :P
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: smartcooky on August 27, 2015, 07:42:15 PM
From what I've read, there was a great deal of animosity between the actors that portrayed Garibaldi and Sinclair and it got to the point were one of them would have to go. As you say, a big improvement with Captain Sheridan taking over.
According to Michael O'Hare's WP page, it was his increasing problems with his mental health and need for extended treatment that led to his being written out.

I'd also heard, at the time, that the network execs wanted someone more action-hero-y than O'Hare, and brought in Boxleitner.

Fred

Part of that fractious relationship with Doyle was probably due to his mental illness. In the last 10 years of his life, his health went downhill until he died in 2012 aged 60.

Here is Straczynski talking about the issues with O'Hare, and how hard he fought to finish that first season. A truly sad story.



There are a number of other actors from that show who have since died.... Andreas Katsulas (G.Kar), Richard Biggs (Dr Franklin) and Jeff Conaway (Zack Allen)

Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Allan F on August 27, 2015, 09:07:29 PM
And most of the CGI was done on Amigas.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: Bob B. on August 27, 2015, 10:13:22 PM
Here is Straczynski talking about the issues with O'Hare, and how hard he fought to finish that first season. A truly sad story.


This is the first time I've heard that story.  It really is quite sad.  I've got to give kudos to Straczynski for the way he handled the situation.
Title: Re: Quora
Post by: twik on September 03, 2015, 02:24:51 PM
Racism. Seriously. Light pink people found browner people did these amazing things, and, rather then change their world view that brown people couldn't do neat stuff too, nope, must be aliens/demons/what have you.

Not entirely fair. Many of them are quite willing to believe that light pink people can't build Stonehenge, design the Antikythera mechanism, etc.