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51

The Hoax Theory / Re: Watching the detectives...

« Last post by Peter B on November 23, 2025, 12:37:10 AM »

IIRC, all the landing missions occurred early in the morning so the sun would never be at 70 degrees until after they left.
ETA:  Here is a list of all sun angles during the 6 landings.
https://www.nasa.gov/history/alsj/alsj-sunangles.html

No, the Sun was never at 70 degrees. But the argument was about the altitude of the Earth.

52

The Hoax Theory / Re: Watching the detectives...

« Last post by bknight on November 22, 2025, 05:27:02 PM »

IIRC, all the landing missions occurred early in the morning so the sun would never be at 70 degrees until after they left.
ETA:  Here is a list of all sun angles during the 6 landings.
https://www.nasa.gov/history/alsj/alsj-sunangles.html

53

The Hoax Theory / Re: Watching the detectives...

« Last post by onebigmonkey on November 22, 2025, 05:44:38 AM »

Meanwhile, over on straydog02's channel, he is busy arguing until he's blue in the face (complete with various AI contributions) that Gene Cernan's quote in an interview that the Earth was "close to the horizon" proves it was faked, because it was not.

He has used simple trig to deduce that the Earth should be 70 degrees high in the lunar sky, because 20 degrees north from 90 degrees = 70. What he's failed to grasp is that the moon is above the plane of the ecliptic, effectively "looking down" at Earth, which reduces that angle somewhat.

He even claims that the ALSJ reports teh Earth elevation as 70 degrees, but fails to give a source for that. If it's there I can't find it, and ff you actually check through the transcripts you find reference to the antenna needing pointing at the correct angle:

142:44:46   Mission Control   You might check the low gain antella - antenna elevation to make sure it's at 45 degrees. We'd like - we think you commented on that. And I think you're right now looking at tightening Jack's camera handle.
142:45:00   Schmitt   I'll work on that, Gene. You go ahead with the other - -
142:45:02   Cernan   Okay. Yes, we are at 45 degrees, Bob. Let me check it. I'll lose the comm on you a second. I've got to turn it towards me.
142:45:17   Cernan   ... at 045.

He further claims that Stellarium is somehow providing angles from orbit, not the ground, which is not what it says at all - it gives values from a zero datum, not orbit, and that elevataion angle is around 44 degrees (depending on the precise time used).

He can't accept that a) Cernan loves a good yarn, and his telling of events and how that event actually looked may not be entirely accurate and b) that when looking at the Earth above the South Massif (and particularly when at the Boulder 2 location at its base), the Earth very much was "close to the horizon". It was certainly lower in the lunar sky than in missions nearer the equator.

54

The Hoax Theory / Re: The Sound of Silence

« Last post by TimberWolfAu on November 21, 2025, 10:01:37 PM »

I've wondered about this one for a long time.

A: You're a bunch of sheeple who believe whatever you're told!

B: Then why don't we believe you?

From what I've seen, it looks psychological.

Leaving the grifters to the side, it has the feel and appearance of people needing there to be an explanation, a reason for why bad things happen. The idea that bad things happen, for no apparent reason, just doesn't sit with them and leaves them feeling powerless, and so they need to have a cause, a THEM that are behind all the bad things that happen in the world, so that the average HB can sit there and say "see, it's not that I have no power or control over my life, it's because there are big, evil, force controlling the world for there own nefarious (moustache twirling) ends", or something like that.

And, of course, once you have a big bad THEM in position, you can start tying them into everything bad that happens; plane crashed? Must have been a person on board that THEY wanted to be rid of. Fires burn down a town? Clearly THEY were testing their new DEWs. Local football team lost? Well, look at the position of the moon, and the uniform number of the full-back, clearly it was a ritual "sacrifice" (that they have to perform in the open, and give clues that they are EVIL - because reasons).

Now I like a good conspiracy, but it needs to make internal sense. The average moon landing hoax doesn't make sense, when you look at it from a story point of view. There was a good one, Richard Hoagland's solar system wide conspiracy that you used to find on Enterprise Mission, that I liked. It told a good story, that didn't fall apart with just a casual brush. Of course, once you started poking at the details it stopped making sense, but the overall story was fun.

55

The Hoax Theory / Lunar surface models

« Last post by onebigmonkey on November 21, 2025, 03:08:07 AM »

You quite often see this image touted around as some sort of proof of something or other - "Hey look, they used models":

https://www.nasa.gov/image-article/project-lola/



It's currently on Rasa's fb group with someone using it as an example of how "they" could simulate it.

It got me thinking - I wonder where that photo is that he's holding, how big an area we looking at here? I mean, obviously it's a large curved model so it must be big, but hoaxers are dumb and they need the obvious pointing out to them.

After some hunting I found it - it's the red square here:



and here it is in close-up:



It's an area around 570km by 570km. It's huge.

Just one thing though - it's all upside down! This is the actual orientation as we see it:



So there we are. Next time somone tries their big "a-haaa" - ask them to point out an Apollo landing site on it.

On the subject of models, someone else has posted this on that same group:



I can tell him the tools we use: our eyes. What happens when the get closer and closer to the model's surface no additional detail is resolved. What happens with the Apollo footage is that more and more detail is resolved. Details unknown prior to the footage being taken. Details confirmed by numerous post-Apollo photos. The special ability is "using your brain". Oh..wait...

56

The Hoax Theory / Re: The Sound of Silence

« Last post by rocketman on November 19, 2025, 09:28:48 PM »

Conspiracy nuts: You're just swallowing any garbage the mass media throw at you!

Also conspiracy nuts: This minor celebrity famous for no peddling empty headed garbage on the mass media said something that confirms my bias!!

I've wondered about this one for a long time.

A: You're a bunch of sheeple who believe whatever you're told!

B: Then why don't we believe you?

57

The Hoax Theory / Re: Watching the detectives...

« Last post by Peter B on November 19, 2025, 06:15:43 PM »

...He's also busy claiming victory in his recent debate with MC Toon, whereas anyone who watched it knows he made an absolute dick of himself. Again.

This is why I think debates are pretty pointless. They're only really good at showing who is the better debater, and that's about it.

58

The Hoax Theory / Re: Watching the detectives...

« Last post by onebigmonkey on November 19, 2025, 02:21:04 AM »

Meanwhile, in a shock development, Rasa proves himself to be completely dishonest.

I know, right?

He's taken one of our former member's nonsense claims about Apollo flag movements and declared it a smoking gun. Again.

He then makes a new post crowing over one of his critics.

But oddly, the comment looka different when ypu look at it in its entirety.

Almost as if (Not a) doctor Rasa is being deliberately deceptive.

He's also busy claiming victory in his recent debate with MC Toon, whereas anyone who watched it knows he made an absolute dick of himself. Again.

59

The Hoax Theory / Re: Watching the detectives...

« Last post by onebigmonkey on November 18, 2025, 04:47:30 AM »

He's desperate to find something wrong with surveyor.

He spent a lot of time arguing that it had a telescopic bar moving the scoop, despite many people (including the hoax faithful) pointing out that it was a tape.

https://onebigmonkey.com/itburns/bunker.html#Taped

60

The Hoax Theory / Re: Watching the detectives...

« Last post by TimberWolfAu on November 17, 2025, 09:03:18 PM »

I thought so. I hadn't watched the entire FTFE/Marcus debate. Used to like FTFE but I find his style more annoying these days, gets confrontational too quickly for my liking (guess I'm getting old and grumpy.....ier).

Watching the MCToon/'Rasa' debate, his three pictures of the Surveyor 3 foot caught my attention, because it's my picture I made showing that there was at least a second lot of regolith placed on the foot (green highlighting made me go check my ones).

If only someone had thought to take one of the Surveyor images and compare them against the Apollo 12 photos, comparing the shapes and markings to see that they matched. You'd have to some sort of monkey, perhaps even a big monkey, to do something like that 

I love that 'Rasa' seems to think the Surveyor 3 bounced straight up and down, with the foot pad mark we can see belonging to the footpad in the photo. From what I've read, the horizontal distance of the last bounce seems to be about the width of the Surveyor itself, and, IIRC, some of the Surveyor images show where the previous impacts were, although I haven't looked for them in the A12 photos.