Author Topic: Questions needing answers  (Read 194203 times)

Offline tradosaurus

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Questions needing answers
« on: January 31, 2016, 10:55:16 AM »
As a proud Apollo moon lander denier and a degreed Mechanical Engineer, I have a few questions to ask those that believe in NASA's story.   As you answer these questions please take a minute to ponder if you are answering the questions based on faith or based on logic and evidence.  My contention is that those that believe in a globe earth universe, which includes moon landings, are operating on a basis of faith and therefore are adhering to a NASA based religion.

1) Why does the earth look so small in the background of photographs on the moon.  The earth should be much larger.
2) How did the astronauts keep cooled and heated in extreme temperatures (+/- 200F).  Could 1960's technology operated in this environment? I've seen a picture of the heat transfer system supposedly used but it still needed a power supply.
3) How did the astronauts fit through a 22" docking hatch with their backpacks on when hooking back with the command module?
4) How could NASA send a rocket to the moon given the variables (as told to us by science books) of the earth's rotation (1,000 mph), the earths rotation around the sun (65,000 mph), and the moon's rotation about the earth using technology no powerful than a pocket calculator.
5) How did all consumables including fuel (and a lunar rover) needed for a 7 day trip for 3 men fit in the lunar module?  According to NASA the LM was height was 22'-11" (with legs extended) and 31 ft diameter (across extended landing gear) so LM cargo/living area was smaller.
6) What kind of camera technology could withstand +/-200 F heat and develop film so perfectly clear (and film withstand radiation twice through the Van Allen belts)?
7) How did the astronauts poop and pee during their 7 day excursion to and from the moon?  Were they able to get out of their suits at all?
NASA:  Faking space for over 50 years.

Offline Gazpar

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2016, 11:27:30 AM »
1) Why does the earth look so small in the background of photographs on the moon.  The earth should be much larger.
The camera was using a wide angle lens.

Offline bknight

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2016, 11:42:24 AM »
As a proud Apollo moon lander denier and a degreed Mechanical Engineer, I have a few questions to ask those that believe in NASA's story.   As you answer these questions please take a minute to ponder if you are answering the questions based on faith or based on logic and evidence.  My contention is that those that believe in a globe earth universe, which includes moon landings, are operating on a basis of faith and therefore are adhering to a NASA based religion.

1) Why does the earth look so small in the background of photographs on the moon.  The earth should be much larger.
2) How did the astronauts keep cooled and heated in extreme temperatures (+/- 200F).  Could 1960's technology operated in this environment? I've seen a picture of the heat transfer system supposedly used but it still needed a power supply.
3) How did the astronauts fit through a 22" docking hatch with their backpacks on when hooking back with the command module?
4) How could NASA send a rocket to the moon given the variables (as told to us by science books) of the earth's rotation (1,000 mph), the earths rotation around the sun (65,000 mph), and the moon's rotation about the earth using technology no powerful than a pocket calculator.
5) How did all consumables including fuel (and a lunar rover) needed for a 7 day trip for 3 men fit in the lunar module?  According to NASA the LM was height was 22'-11" (with legs extended) and 31 ft diameter (across extended landing gear) so LM cargo/living area was smaller.
6) What kind of camera technology could withstand +/-200 F heat and develop film so perfectly clear (and film withstand radiation twice through the Van Allen belts)?
7) How did the astronauts poop and pee during their 7 day excursion to and from the moon?  Were they able to get out of their suits at all?
You are very talented when it comes to research on the matter.  Here you won't find anyone providing evidence based on faith, but based on engineering/scientific proofs.
1. The size of the Earth depends a lot on the focal length of the lens used in each image.  Please provide a calculation for the size of the earth on any give image.
2.  The PLSS provided the necessary cooling for the EVA's  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_Life_Support_System  supplied in the other thread also.
3. Numskull they didn't fit through a 22" docking hatch but the 32" hatchway.
4. All the physics calculations are available to anyone that is intelligent enough to use them.  Some need more computing power than a spreadsheet, but all were quite capable with a slide rule.  Some require integration.
5. All the consumable you speak of were supplied for 2 men for 3 days on the moon, the rest of the consumables were on board the CSM, for all three men.
6.  Provide documentation to the amount of radiation the film/cameras were subjected to.
7.  Bodily functions were contained with plastic bags that either attached with tubes, or had adhesive for fecal material.  These were then stored or dumped overboard.
How did you graduate with an Engineering degree with the poor research efforts you have presented here.
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Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2016, 11:44:25 AM »
I'm amazed anyone can be so proud of their own ignorance and lack of ability to do simple google searches to answer tired old questions that have been answered over and over again.

1. The moon is quite big. Go take a photo of it and see how small it looks. Please provide any kind of evidence that supports your claim that it is too small in Apollo images, otherwise we have rely on your faith based religion.

2. What temperature ranges were being experienced in the lunar morning during which the missions landed? Please provide any kind of evidence that the technology was not up to managing that temperature range or that the battery power supply was inadequate, otherwise we have rely on your faith based religion.

3. They wriggled through the hatch carefully. Your size is incorrect. Go find the correct size.

4. Newton's laws of motion.

5.They put things away. The rover was not inside the lunar module. They did not travel to the moon in the lunar module, they travelled in the command module. 

6. The same camera technology that worked just fine in Earth orbit and on various unmanned probes. Prove it couldn't have, otherwise we have rely on your faith based religion.

7. Do some research. Google is your friend.

Please let us know which engineering projects you have worked on. I need to avoid them.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2016, 12:05:31 PM »
...and a degreed Mechanical Engineer.

Nope.

I've been a practicing engineer for 30 years, and taught it for a few.  There are other practicing engineers who participate in this forum, and who will no doubt arrive shortly.  Your post below reveals common layman's mistakes.  I reject entirely the claim that you have any formal engineering education or experience, so if your plan is to bluster your way past whom you think are unsuspecting folk, you are in for a surprise.

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Why does the earth look so small in the background of photographs on the moon.

Basic optics.  You should have learned that as an engineer, in first-year engineering physics.

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The earth should be much larger.

Exactly how large?  You say you're an engineer.  So am I.  Thus I require quantitative arguments to be supported with computations or detailed estimates.  You provide neither.  Given the easily-discovered optics parameters of the Apollo cameras, lenses, and films, there is no excuse for your not having done this.

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How did the astronauts keep cooled and heated in extreme temperatures (+/- 200F).

What object or substance exactly do you claim fluctuated between these temperatures?  You display a layman's cartoonish understanding of the space environment.

Preventing heat transfer via convection and conduction is a matter of thermal insulation.  Apollo space suits provide several dozen thicknesses of alternating materials resulting in practically zero thermal conduction across the boundary.  The problem then becomes rejection of metabolic heat.  Preventing heat transfer by radiation is a matter of controlling the optical properties , which you would have learned in first-year thermal design, had you really obtained an engineering degree.  The outer layer of the Apollo space suit had a reflectivity in the appropriate wavelengths of around 0.8.  Given a solar influx of approximately 1,300 W m-2, you should be able to compute the absorption and put some actual numbers to your claims.

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Could 1960's technology operated in this environment?

Why not?  The designs are publicly available, as well as examples of them.  We use the same technology today, by the way.  It hasn't been improved upon much since the 1960s because it works well enough.

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I've seen a picture of the heat transfer system supposedly used...

But, as a purported engineer, you didn't study the designs to determine how it was intended to work?

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...but it still needed a power supply.

It had one, in the form of a battery that was changed between EVAs.  It is a common layman's mistake to believe the thermal control system required considerable electrical power to operate.  This is sometimes true in vapor-cycle systems that require compressors, but not for sublimation systems.  The heat transfer takes space via normal sublimation.  The only power required is that to pump the sublimant, and to circulate air.

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3) How did the astronauts fit through a 22" docking hatch with their backpacks on when hooking back with the command module?

They didn't.  You clearly have not researched the Apollo mission profile.  Transfers between the LM and CM through the docking tunnel were when the entire stack was pressurized and they could move about it in suits.  Contingency transfers between the LM and CM, should docking prove elusive, were via the 32-inch forward hatch on the LM.  Operations in suits within each spacecraft were when the suits were connected to the environmental controls via hoses.

The only time the astronauts were expected to wear the PLSS/OPS assembly in a spacecraft was in the LM just prior to and after EVA.

[quote[How could NASA send a rocket to the moon given the variables (as told to us by science books) of the earth's rotation (1,000 mph), the earths rotation around the sun (65,000 mph), and the moon's rotation about the earth using technology no powerful than a pocket calculator.[/quote]

How much computing power is required?  You make no quantitative argument or supply any numbers.  You simply insinuate that space travel is an exercise requiring substantial onboard computing power, and suggest that because it wasn't provided, it can't be possible.  What kind of an engineer are you?  You can't make even the simplest case in an engineering context.

Why are you giving rotation rates in units of scalar velocity?

To answer your question, most of the math was done ahead of time using mainframe computers and the Dept. of Energy's CDC 6600 supercomputer (roughly equivalent to a 1990s Pentium).  For support during the missions, these preliminary orbital computations were adjusted by IBM mainframes in NASA computing centers and transmitted by radio to the onboard computer.

But the real problem is that you have a comical layman's understanding of what is needed, on an ongoing basis, for flying in space.

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How did all consumables including fuel (and a lunar rover) needed for a 7 day trip for 3 men fit in the lunar module?

The LRV folded up and was strapped to the forward left quadrant of the LM descent stage.  There is extensive documentation for how this was done, and video of it being deployed.

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According to NASA the LM was height was 22'-11" (with legs extended) and 31 ft diameter (across extended landing gear) so LM cargo/living area was smaller.

None of the consumables were kept inside the habitable volume.  Descent fuel was in two of the quadrants of the LM descent stage.  RCS and APS fuel was kept in the two bulbous projections on either side of the LM cabin.  Also, you account only for the LM, which was designed only to keep two men alive for two days (H-type) or 3-4 days (J-type).  You seem conspicuously unaware that consumables for the rest of the mission were provided by the service module -- again, storage kept outside the habitable volumes.
 
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What kind of camera technology could withstand +/-200 F heat and develop film so perfectly clear (and film withstand radiation twice through the Van Allen belts)?

The Hasselblad cameras were very sturdy and substantial.  Their heat conduction paths were carefully considered, especially in the 70mm longroll magazines.  The film base was Kodak's ESTAR, made of polyester and developed specifically for high-altitude and space environments.  Its melting point is around 400 C.  It was extensively tested during Gemini.

You provide no radiation figures for the trip around the Van Allen belts.  In any case, the film magazines were kept inside spacecraft structure and the film was thus adequately shielded.

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How did the astronauts poop and pee during their 7 day excursion to and from the moon?  Were they able to get out of their suits at all?

Yes.  The astronauts spent very little time in their space suits, as each spacecraft had a habitable environment.  Further, all these details of life aboard the Apollo spacecraft are the subject of many books, many pre- and post-mission publications by NASA and their contractors, and frankly common knowledge among the engineering community.

You clearly don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about.
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Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2016, 12:07:57 PM »
As a proud Apollo moon lander denier and a degreed Mechanical Engineer,

Where's your degree from if you can't work out that the Earth isn't flat?







1) Why does the earth look so small in the background of photographs on the moon.  The earth should be much larger.
"should look much larger"? Says who? On what basis do you make that claim?



5) How did all consumables including fuel (and a lunar rover) needed for a 7 day trip for 3 men fit in the lunar module? 
Hmmm..are you Dak Dak? He had a similar obsession. And why do you think that the LRV was inside the LM?



1) Why does the earth look so small in the background of photographs on the moon.  The earth should be much larger.
2) How did the astronauts keep cooled and heated in extreme temperatures (+/- 200F).  Could 1960's technology operated in this environment? I've seen a picture of the heat transfer system supposedly used but it still needed a power supply.
3) How did the astronauts fit through a 22" docking hatch with their backpacks on when hooking back with the command module?
4) How could NASA send a rocket to the moon given the variables (as told to us by science books) of the earth's rotation (1,000 mph), the earths rotation around the sun (65,000 mph), and the moon's rotation about the earth using technology no powerful than a pocket calculator.
5) How did all consumables including fuel (and a lunar rover) needed for a 7 day trip for 3 men fit in the lunar module?  According to NASA the LM was height was 22'-11" (with legs extended) and 31 ft diameter (across extended landing gear) so LM cargo/living area was smaller.
6) What kind of camera technology could withstand +/-200 F heat and develop film so perfectly clear (and film withstand radiation twice through the Van Allen belts)?
7) How did the astronauts poop and pee during their 7 day excursion to and from the moon?  Were they able to get out of their suits at all?

Really? You claim to have a University education and you are asking questions that a primary school student would be embarrassed to ask? Go and do some research.
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Offline bknight

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2016, 12:37:52 PM »

Quote
Where's your degree from if you can't work out that the Earth isn't flat?

The university of general mills??

Quote
Hmmm..are you Dak Dak? He had a similar obsession. And why do you think that the LRV was inside the LM?

I suspected a sock.
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Offline gillianren

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2016, 12:45:58 PM »
Yes.  The astronauts spent very little time in their space suits, as each spacecraft had a habitable environment.  Further, all these details of life aboard the Apollo spacecraft are the subject of many books, many pre- and post-mission publications by NASA and their contractors, and frankly common knowledge among the engineering community.

You clearly don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about.

I mean, has he even seen Apollo 13?
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Offline bknight

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2016, 01:16:53 PM »
...and a degreed Mechanical Engineer.

Nope.

I've been a practicing engineer for 30 years, and taught it for a few.  There are other practicing engineers who participate in this forum, and who will no doubt arrive shortly.  Your post below reveals common layman's mistakes.  I reject entirely the claim that you have any formal engineering education or experience, so if your plan is to bluster your way past whom you think are unsuspecting folk, you are in for a surprise.

Jay you always have a good way of saying what's on my mind.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
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Offline frenat

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2016, 01:28:38 PM »
As a proud Apollo moon lander denier and a degreed Mechanical Engineer, I have a few questions to ask those that believe in NASA's story.   As you answer these questions please take a minute to ponder if you are answering the questions based on faith or based on logic and evidence.  My contention is that those that believe in a globe earth universe, which includes moon landings, are operating on a basis of faith and therefore are adhering to a NASA based religion.

1) Why does the earth look so small in the background of photographs on the moon.  The earth should be much larger.
Already answered.  Wide angle lens.  The type of lens used affects the relative size of objects in the frame.  Do the math for the focal length though and you'll find the Earth takes up about 2 degrees, exactly how much it should.

2) How did the astronauts keep cooled and heated in extreme temperatures (+/- 200F).  Could 1960's technology operated in this environment? I've seen a picture of the heat transfer system supposedly used but it still needed a power supply.
using the same kind of equipment they use in low Earth orbit which has the same thermal environment.  Your quoted temps are the MAX and MIN temps for the surface.  It takes time to heat up or cool down.  They weren't there when the surface was near those temps and even then only their boots would have been in contact with it.

3) How did the astronauts fit through a 22" docking hatch with their backpacks on when hooking back with the command module?

Already answered.


4) How could NASA send a rocket to the moon given the variables (as told to us by science books) of the earth's rotation (1,000 mph), the earths rotation around the sun (65,000 mph), and the moon's rotation about the earth using technology no powerful than a pocket calculator.
Movement around the sun doesn't matter (or rather, isn't needed to be worried about in the calculation) when a trip to the Moon is essentially an elongated orbit around Earth.  The relevant calculations can be done on a slide-rule.  They were also often done in the large mainframes on Earth and the necessary info radioed up.

5) How did all consumables including fuel (and a lunar rover) needed for a 7 day trip for 3 men fit in the lunar module?  According to NASA the LM was height was 22'-11" (with legs extended) and 31 ft diameter (across extended landing gear) so LM cargo/living area was smaller.
Haven't you studied at all?  The rover attached to the outside.  The Lunar Module carried 2 men not 3.  The info is out there showing there was plenty of room.  If you don't agree then show why.  Hand waving won't cut it.

6) What kind of camera technology could withstand +/-200 F heat and develop film so perfectly clear (and film withstand radiation twice through the Van Allen belts)?
They went around the majority of the belts.



and the film never came in contact with anything that temperature.  See #2 above.

7) How did the astronauts poop and pee during their 7 day excursion to and from the moon?  Were they able to get out of their suits at all?
Most of the time they were in flight suits as they were in the pressurized spacecraft.  Have you studied this at all?
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Offline frenat

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2016, 01:30:22 PM »
1) Why does the earth look so small in the background of photographs on the moon.  The earth should be much larger.
The camera was using a wide angle lens.

I love that pic.  I'm glad I saved it to photobucket before the original site it was on shut down.
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Offline raven

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2016, 01:38:08 PM »
It's pretty trippy. I wish I understood the math behind it, but the evidence is there, as well as in movies that use Hitchcock's famous dolly zoom.

Offline Gazpar

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2016, 01:38:22 PM »
1) Why does the earth look so small in the background of photographs on the moon.  The earth should be much larger.
The camera was using a wide angle lens.

I love that pic.  I'm glad I saved it to photobucket before the original site it was on shut down.
Here is another non-animated example.

Offline tradosaurus

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2016, 02:31:43 PM »
1) Why does the earth look so small in the background of photographs on the moon.  The earth should be much larger.
The camera was using a wide angle lens.


That's awesome with 1960's camera technology.  In addition the astronauts had the cameras fitted to the front of the suits with no view finders so I think they did a fantastic job of getting all these great and clear shots.

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11-hass.html

From the humor department of NASA:  "The Data Camera was given a silver finish to make it more resistant to thermal variations that ranged from full Sun to full shadow helping maintain a more uniform internal temperature.". 
NASA:  Faking space for over 50 years.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Questions needing answers
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2016, 02:46:54 PM »
From the humor department of NASA:  "The Data Camera was given a silver finish to make it more resistant to thermal variations that ranged from full Sun to full shadow helping maintain a more uniform internal temperature.".

What's almost humorous is that someone claiming to be a mechanical engineer has no comprehension about thermal reflectivity.  "Humorous" in that anyone with more than a few working brain cells is watching you making an eejit out of yourself.
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