A flat Earth thread for Tradosaurus

[Cat Not Included]

Since this is completely off topic for the Apollo Hoax subforum, I thought I'd create a thread here for it. There have been many questions put to Tradosaurus regarding a flat earth. I'm just going to bring over mine for the moment, but anyone else is welcome to bring more.

So tradasaurus, care to go start a topic in "Other Conspiracies" covering:
A) Why in the world everyone who knew the Earth was flat would want to keep it secret.

B) A modern to-scale map of the flat-Earth world, accurately showing the relative sizes of all of the continents and the oceans.

C) What exactly satellites and the ISS are doing in a flat Earth model.

A) Simple:  control over you and your money.

To give that as your reason, you would need to show HOW keeping a flat Earth a secret grants any special control over me or my money, which (if you could come up with a reason) would obviously need to be a very different reason for each of the many different industries, companies and private individuals that would need to keep this secret. You would also need to show how that same logic would apply for the past several thousand years.

Knowledge about the shape of the Earth began well over a thousand years ago. At that time, there were no planes, satellites of spacecraft.

Numerous new technology developments would have led to the discovery of the correct shape of the Earth. Balloonists would have noticed. Aircraft pilots would have noticed. Even exploration ships would have noticed on reaching the "edge" of the Earth. Each of these people, separately and in numerous countries over a very long period of time would have had to be persuaded not to share their discovery. Why? How? By who?

B) Have you seen some of the supposed photos of the earth taken from space as given to us by NASA?  There aren't many at all which is strange given that there are supposedly 20,000 satellites in earth orbit. 
The continents depicted are not scales correctly (oopsy).  And here I thought water covered 75% of the earths surface.
http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/images/618486main_earth_full.jpg
http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/57000/57723/globe_east_540.jpg

I have seen MANY of the photos taken from space by NASA, and by a number of other sources. I have no idea why you say "there aren't many". Check out Google Maps and turn on Satellite view, which uses enough satellite imagery to cover pretty much the entire planet.

None of which has anything to with my question - I would like to see a modern, to scale, flat Earth map. That seems an entirely reasonable request.

C) Also as a mental exercise please google "Satellite" and see if you find actual pictures of a satellite.  With 20,000+ satellites in orbit you would think we could get more than composite drawings.

Well, you can google "satellites being assembled" to find many, many photos of satellites on Earth.
You can google "satellites as seen from Earth" to find many photos of satellites taken from Earth. By and large, however, they look like streaks or points of light (depending on the exposure of the photo) moving across the sky. Which is exactly what small, fast-moving objects hundreds of kilometers away SHOULD look like.

Or, you can skip looking for images online and look up when you can actually go outside and see, with your own eyes, objects passing overhead. The ISS is the (for many places) the easiest to see. I have seen it. With my own eyes. In your world, what am I actually seeing going overhead at incredible speeds?

[Paul]

None of which has anything to with my question - I would like to see a modern, to scale, flat Earth map. That seems an entirely reasonable request.

What I'd like to see is Flat Earth planetarium software so we could examine the planet/star projections in detail.  I did some searches a few weeks back but no such software appears to exist.  I did find a video on Eric D's channel which tried to explain away the Northern/Southern hemisphere star trail issue, but one of the Flat Earthers in the film actually used 'Stellarium' to try to back up their arguments.  Stellarium (http://www.stellarium.org/) is presumably (lol) modelled used 'globe Earth' physics (the software is open source if anyone wants to verify!).

Surely there is a Flat Earth believing programmer out there who could model the Flat Earth physics, it would make it a lot easier for them to explain some of their arguments

[Zakalwe]

FWIW, this will be my only post in this thread as I cannot be bothered wasting my time and energy on meaningless conversation like this. What amazes me about intellectual cowards like Flat Earthers is that they are banging on about stuff that is so easily shown to be incorrect. Meanwhile, the Universe is full of strangeness and wonders and these fools are blathering on about concepts that were covered hundreds, if not thousands of years ago.

We know that reality is sufficiently weird* without having to tediously attempt to explain simple concepts to people that want to adopt a contrarian position. If you want weirdness, then go and look into the world of quantum mechanics, look down a microscope or point a telescope at the heavens.  Watching people like tradosaurus trashing around is like watching a child arguing in the carpark that his blue entrance ticket to the art gallery is green. Meanwhile, everyone else is inside, filled with wonder at the contents. Two hours later, tradosaurus is still in the carpark shouting at random strangers that his blue ticket is green.  Wandering into a forum such as this would be akin to the child wandering into an opticians and demanding that they agree with his silly claims.

So, in my opinion it is pointless. Normally I consider it worth debating with Moon hoax loonies as there may be people in the audience that are unaware of the evidence supporting the program. My aim is rarely to convince the hoax believer as, in the main, they are wilfully ignorant. In this case I consider it pointless as this forum is pretty much dedicated to discussing the Apollo program. It is unlikely to attract anyone wanting to talk about Flat Earth and even if it was I wouldn't debate it, as Flat Earth belief is about as niche as wacko beliefs go.


*My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we *can* suppose. JBS Haldane

[Cat Not Included]

FWIW, this will be my only post in this thread as I cannot be bothered wasting my time and energy on meaningless conversation like this. What amazes me about intellectual cowards like Flat Earthers is that they are banging on about stuff that is so easily shown to be incorrect. Meanwhile, the Universe is full of strangeness and wonders and these fools are blathering on about concepts that were covered hundreds, if not thousands of years ago.

This is, most likely, far and away the more sensible strategy.

I have an extremely difficult time believing that any claimed "flat-earther" is not, in fact, just deliberately trolling, as it seems absurd I can't really believe anyone would take it seriously.

I suppose my big mistake lies in giving a troll too much credit. To me, if I wanted to generate discussion on a ridiculous topic, I would want to make my position as believable as possible. I would want it to be persuasive and difficult to dismantle. I would want a logical narrative backed by as much realistic detail as I could manage. So I'm curious to find out what their invented narrative is. But I guess many of them are not like me, and simply haven't bothered to come up with one.

This may also explain why I'm so often annoyed with poorly explained/thought out plot elements in movies and TV shows. :p

[frenat]

Here's my request for anyone that might believe in a flat Earth.  Show me a map that does NOT have distortion and has accurate measurements for the flat Earth.  Flat Earth doesn't have one.  They like to point to the Azimuth equidistant projection that has the North pole in the center and Antarctica around the outside but the distances are NOT correct especially when South of the equator.  Unless they have an accurate map, there is no flat Earth.  On the other hand, we DO have accurate globes.

[DonQuixote]

Howdy folks!

Been a good little while since my last post, but I recently ran afoul of a nest of these loons and they threw one at me that has sent me on a little trip down the rabbit hole. Ok, before I lay put the icing on this particular cake of insanity, let me give you some of the details. In their model, we have the following:

• Their earth is flat.
• It's a north-down polar projection.
• Antarctica is an enclosing "wall" of ice along the map's outer edge.
• All satellite photos are "obvious fakes."
• No one has ever conclusively proven(to them) that they have crossed Antarctica.
• And of course the government/Illuminati/Lizard Men are fiercely guarding access to the continent.

Now, as a gestalt, I can poke holes all through that, but there's this one thing I can't seem to lock down. I was hoping to debunk the crossing claim with either some time-lapse of a plane or an expedition crossing, and of all the possibilities I encountered, the real slam-dunk appeared to be the Steger/Etienne team of 1989-90 that went on a true cross-continent traverse, but when I started looking for articles, pics, and videos, all I could really find were 2nd-hand accounts and Stegel's interviews which were sadly devoid of what I was hoping to find.

Would anyone happen to know where I might track down any footage? According to my research thus far, ABC TV received periodic live feeds from the team(and won an Emmy for one of them), but I've yet to locate them on either YouTube, ABC's own archives, or the Library of Congress. I should just let this go, considering how deeply into solipsism they delve, but I would just really like to shut them down.

[Gazpar]

Howdy folks!

Been a good little while since my last post, but I recently ran afoul of a nest of these loons and they threw one at me that has sent me on a little trip down the rabbit hole. Ok, before I lay put the icing on this particular cake of insanity, let me give you some of the details. In their model, we have the following:

• Their earth is flat.
• It's a north-down polar projection.
• Antarctica is an enclosing "wall" of ice along the map's outer edge.
• All satellite photos are "obvious fakes."
• No one has ever conclusively proven(to them) that they have crossed Antarctica.
• And of course the government/Illuminati/Lizard Men are fiercely guarding access to the continent.

Now, as a gestalt, I can poke holes all through that, but there's this one thing I can't seem to lock down. I was hoping to debunk the crossing claim with either some time-lapse of a plane or an expedition crossing, and of all the possibilities I encountered, the real slam-dunk appeared to be the Steger/Etienne team of 1989-90 that went on a true cross-continent traverse, but when I started looking for articles, pics, and videos, all I could really find were 2nd-hand accounts and Stegel's interviews which were sadly devoid of what I was hoping to find.

Would anyone happen to know where I might track down any footage? According to my research thus far, ABC TV received periodic live feeds from the team(and won an Emmy for one of them), but I've yet to locate them on either YouTube, ABC's own archives, or the Library of Congress. I should just let this go, considering how deeply into solipsism they delve, but I would just really like to shut them down.

You should let it go in my opinion. The majority are just a bunch of trolls and the ones who really believe it already made up in their mind that every evidence of the spherical earth has been faked by "them" while they live in their fantasy land.

[DonQuixote]

You should let it go in my opinion. The majority are just a bunch of trolls and the ones who really believe it already made up in their mind that every evidence of the spherical earth has been faked by "them" while they live in their fantasy land.

Thanks, I'm gonna try, but it won't ain't gonna be easy . . . I found some of the footage I was looking for. 

[gillianren]

I'm a layperson, and I've seen with my own eyes satellites under construction.  JPL holds an open house once a year, and one of the places you can access is the observation decks over the clean rooms.  In addition, they sponsored my junior high school in the district's adopt-a-school program, and I went caroling there in seventh grade.  They judged our science fair.  If they were really the keepers of such a deep, dark secret, why would they risk letting so many people on the property so often?

[Peter B]

Out of interest, does anyone know how to project the dark/light divide on this map (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.html) onto Tradasaurus's world map, please? I'm curious what shape it would produce...

[raven]

Well, it's a polar azimuthal equidistant projection, yes? So, cut the earth in half, one half light, one half dark, more or less.

[Gazpar]

Out of interest, does anyone know how to project the dark/light divide on this map (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.html) onto Tradasaurus's world map, please? I'm curious what shape it would produce...

I have seen few objections to this problem such as bendy light by the properties of the Aether or some kind of magic.

[bknight]

Mathematically, given a 7,917 mile earth diameter and 25,000 miles in equatorial circumference, a curvature of 7.935 inches to the mile, varying inversely as the square of the distance, meaning in 3 miles there is a declination of nearly 6 feet, in 30 miles 600 feet, in 300 miles 60,000 feet and so on.  See image at http://flatearthwiki.com/images/f/fb/Bluemarb.jpg.
Basically you should not see a building across, say the chicago skyline from Grand mere state park, which is about 50 miles away. But you can see it.

Brian Mullins, profession civil engineer, has a good video talking about the mythical gravity and gravitational constant.

Earth is a globe and water adheres to a curves surface?  LOL. 

Basically we have been brainwashed by "scientists" to ignore our observations and BELIEVE in things we cannot see.

Riddle me this Batman, why when a ship approaches you the top of the ship is visible first, followed by more and more of the ship from the top down?  In a flat Earth the whole ship would be seen once it is inside the visual acuity of the observer.

Although it is not clear whether or not tradosaurus will use this thread I'll post my question again and add what is your answer tradosaurus?

[Miss Vocalcord]

I have seen few objections to this problem such as bendy light by the properties of the Aether or some kind of magic.

Or an eclipse of the sun by the moon. This 'flat earth' is kind of the new Rick Rolling in my opinion; dumb and childish, not worth the attention.

[ka9q]

So tradasaurus, care to go start a topic in "Other Conspiracies" covering:
A) Why in the world everyone who knew the Earth was flat would want to keep it secret.

ooo! ooo! ooo! I know! I know!

It's a conspiracy by the world's airlines. More specifically those in Australia, South Africa and other southern hemisphere countries. You see, by pretending that the world is a sphere, they can advertise much shorter timetables for their flights from, e.g., Pretoria to Perth and Sydney to Santiago and Buenos Aires, by claiming to take great circle routes to the south. If people knew how long it really took on the flat earth, they'd never buy tickets. And then the US airlines would get all the business. (Oh, wait, I forgot the US is the leader of the scam. Oh well, forget that part. I'll work on it later.) So they went back in time and paid the ancient Greeks to say they'd discovered the spherical shape of the earth. You see, Eratosthenes was actually an Australian agent. He even burnt down the Alexandria library to hide the evidence so today's historians wouldn't find out. Proof is left as an exercise for the reader.

To keep their wicked scam going, the airlines drug every passenger to mess up their sense of time. The flight crews go through and reset everybody's watches and computer clocks so nobody will suspect. Naturally, Big Pharma is also in on the scheme for obvious reasons.