Author Topic: I just needed some therapy  (Read 10341 times)

Offline Chief

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I just needed some therapy
« on: March 02, 2016, 09:38:13 PM »
Over the last few weeks I have been responding on facebook (don’t judge!) to an old friend I reconnected with via my brother. Now, my brother has been a conspiracy believer for a long time and knows my position very clearly and with good humour we banter amongst ourselves often.

This old friend is a different matter however and debating with him left me lost for words, something that rarely happens to me. It started with a post he put up about vegan alternatives to bacon. As bacon is the only thing that could ever be accepted as possible proof of a wise and loving creator if there was such a thing, I made a quip about leaving bacon alone. Well I would just like to state to all the bacon lovers out there that we are responsible for death and war and Amazon deforestation, global warming and the eventual death of the planet. I didn’t know that beforehand and, I must admit, I did feel slightly guilty.

Round two was a post he put up a story about a Particular PhD Scientist who challenged GPs to inoculate themselves with the MMR vaccine, the dose adjusted for their body mass. The challenge was apparently rejected thereby proving vaccination was dangerous. Now, the only conspiracy I will not tolerate is the anti-vax movement and I will try to stamp it out wherever possible and with extreme prejudice. So I did a little bit of research on this scientist (I forget her name) and discovered she was a geologist. So my opening punch was to comment that I did not take medical advice from geologists, thank you very much. With the torrent of abuse I received it was obvious I was dealing with a hard core conspiracy believer. The usual came out – mercury, aluminium, general poisons which either lead to an agonising slow death over 70-80 years and sterilisation but then it got personal.

 As an engineer and lover of science I was being fooled. The great unknown powers that be have actually manipulated the educational institutions of the world, including my own, to only teach us what they wanted us to know, and that common sense and intuition were a far greater tool for knowing the physical world than the junk science that we were all exposed to.

My response to this was that intuition and common sense don’t go very far when designing an aircraft, or a bridge or a building or any number of structures. Common sense and intuition is what lead early medicinal practitioners to use trepanning, prayer and appeal to god/gods. No, we are all being duped and we are so blind and believe ‘them’ so much that we have no hope of salvation.

Then came the final encounter. New footage of the ‘missile’ that struck the pentagon in the 11th of September attacks. I did maybe 10 minute’s internet research to find this particular video is fake. It’s a doctored video of the pentagon during the 60’s taken from the air. I pointed this out to him and the tirades continued. If it wasn’t a missile then what was it, because it sure as hell wasn’t a plane. He then posted the In Plane Site video, which I debunked, explained where the inconsistencies were and showed where and how the producers manipulated evidence and blatantly lied.

There is an opening in the video where the narrator explains where the US Government had lied and that showed, to paraphrase, dishonesty and even guilt. Naturally the lies discovered were due to their own circular reasoning but we won’t let that get in the way of the truth. I used this to suggest that seeing as the producers had edited certain bits to suit their own ends they were being dishonest and indeed guilty of lying themselves. Why should he trust them?

It went on and on to a point that I had to reveal to him that I was an aviation specialist, had been trained for aircraft accident investigation and had used it during my career on a number of occasions. I then went on to explain that, just from the physical evidence, in my professional opinion an aircraft had flown into the pentagon the damage and the amount of wreckage that was found was consistent with the force of the impact and the structure it struck.

Well then, apparently all that meant was that I was an arrogant SOB who thought I was better than everyone and that I should show some respect.
My final reply was short and I didn’t feel like being passive or polite anymore. I could see that we could never agree, that he was totally inflexible, utterly closed minded and paranoid. And that I shall welcome the New World Order with open arms if only for the fact that it would remove the ‘truthers’ from the gene pool. That didn’t go down well either. So I blocked him.

There is no debate, no arguing and no reasoning with these type of ‘truthers’. They will totally ignore any and all evidence presented. My little ray of light is that, at the very least, I have raised and educated my own children to be critical thinkers and rational skeptics.
It’s a long rant I know, so thanks for the therapy session. Is our hour up already?

Offline ka9q

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2016, 10:32:20 PM »
If it helps at all, I can say I'm looking forward to getting the MMR vaccine later this year when it'll have been two years since my stem cell ("bone marrow") transplant. Until then, it's medically contraindicated and I must rely on herd immunity and whatever antibodies I have left over from prior to my transplant (they're not being replaced).

So yeah, I take this anti-vaxx stuff pretty personally too.

Offline gillianren

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 02:04:58 AM »
A friend's son survived measles a year ago.  He was four months old--eight months too young for MMR.  The internet responded by deciding that my friend doesn't exist, because his last name is Loop and he named his son Mobius.  And also, apparently, because there is green in their house?  I don't understand that part.  Still, I've declared Chris my imaginary friend.  Haven't had one of those in over thirty years!
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline ineluki

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2016, 05:28:25 AM »
because his last name is Loop and he named his son Mobius.

Truth to be told, someone called "Mobius Loop" would have made me suspicous too. Far to close to "George Kaplan", "Eve Kendall" and the other witnesses in "Dark Side of the Moon"...

Offline bknight

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2016, 07:24:10 AM »
It is probably not possible to "convert" or converse with the hard core CT's as they "know" the truth and we have been duped.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline gillianren

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2016, 12:46:04 PM »
because his last name is Loop and he named his son Mobius.

Truth to be told, someone called "Mobius Loop" would have made me suspicous too. Far to close to "George Kaplan", "Eve Kendall" and the other witnesses in "Dark Side of the Moon"...

I read a blog that demanded to know what the kid's great-grandmothers would think of such a name.  Turns out one of Chris's grandmothers is alive and his Facebook friend, and her response was, "Well, I'm not thrilled.  But I've met Chris, so I'm also not surprised."
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Chief

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2016, 06:41:30 PM »
Reminds me of the couple in the UK who, in the 80s, named their son Valentine, their surname was Card.

Who does that to a child?

Offline Sus_pilot

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2016, 09:27:12 PM »
Well, Bill Lear's daughter seems to have turned out OK (look her up, I won't spoil it).

Offline gillianren

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2016, 02:14:35 AM »
Reminds me of the couple in the UK who, in the 80s, named their son Valentine, their surname was Card.

Who does that to a child?

My friend Chris, clearly.  I've never said anything to him, but I've rolled my eyes for over a year now.  For what it's worth, they call him Mobi, and he does have a normal-person middle name.  If he hates his name, he can go by something else.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Kiwi

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2016, 04:00:36 AM »
Who does that to a child?

Oh, it can get worse. Or better, depending on your point of view.  :)


Manawatu Evening Standard (New Zealand),  Saturday 19 July 1969, page 3
Apollo-11

NZPA-Reuter — Beirut, July 18
   A 40-year-old Lebanese housewife has named her eleventh child Apollo-11.  Mrs Rifka Salim, a mother of seven girls and three boys, appeared on television tonight with her newly-born baby boy.  She said:  Who knows, he may land on the moon one day.


And from the Apollo 11 voice transcripts at about 8:09:39 pm on 23 July 1969 British Standard Time:

173:37:39 Capcom: A little closer to home here, back in Memphis, Tennessee, a young lady who is presently tipping the scales at 8 pounds, 2 ounces, was named "Module" by her parents, Mr. and Mrs. Eddie Lee McGhee. "It wasn't my idea," said Mrs. McGhee, "It was my husband's." She said she had balked at the name Lunar Module McGhee, because it didn't sound too good, but apparently they have compromised on just Module. Over.


The Apollo 11 Flight Journal adds:
http://history.NASA.gov/ap11fj/24day8-news-checks.htm

[As of July 2009, Module McGhee is living in Columbus, Georgia. She is a mother and a special education teacher, and apparently loves her unusual name. She was mentioned in Norman Mailer's "Of A Fire on the Moon", 1970.]


« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 04:34:38 AM by Kiwi »
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Offline Count Zero

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2016, 12:16:47 PM »
The usual came out – mercury, aluminium, general poisons which either lead to an agonising slow death over 70-80 years...

OK, that made me guffaw!
"What makes one step a giant leap is all the steps before."

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2016, 10:37:09 PM »
So I did a little bit of research on this scientist (I forget her name) and discovered she was a geologist. So my opening punch was to comment that I did not take medical advice from geologists, thank you very much.

One behalf of geologists the world over I apologise for this nutter in our ranks. 

Offline bknight

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2016, 09:05:00 AM »
So I did a little bit of research on this scientist (I forget her name) and discovered she was a geologist. So my opening punch was to comment that I did not take medical advice from geologists, thank you very much.

One behalf of geologists the world over I apologise for this nutter in our ranks.
Yes, I find the same thought emanating from me concerning the engineers who come a spew out BS concerning any of the popular CT's.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline BazBear

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2016, 12:42:59 PM »
So I did a little bit of research on this scientist (I forget her name) and discovered she was a geologist. So my opening punch was to comment that I did not take medical advice from geologists, thank you very much.
d
One behalf of geologists the world over I apologise for this nutter in our ranks.
Yes, I find the same thought emanating from me concerning the engineers who come a spew out BS concerning any of the popular CT's.
From my experience, there seems to be a disproportionate amount of engineers that buy into woo of one sort or another. I'm sure it's a very very tiny minority, but a vocal one.
"It's true you know. In space, no one can hear you scream like a little girl." - Mark Watney, protagonist of The Martian by Andy Weir

Offline bknight

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Re: I just needed some therapy
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2016, 03:58:04 PM »

From my experience, there seems to be a disproportionate amount of engineers that buy into woo of one sort or another. I'm sure it's a very very tiny minority, but a vocal one.


They may have graduated as an engineer, but many I believe do not work in and engineering job requiring systems analysis to solve problems and/or optimize that system.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan