Apollo on TV

[The Question]

Hello,

This is my first post, and I apologize if this is in the wrong place (feel free to move if needed). I saw a AHC channel program called "Chasing Conspiracies' the other night, and it was on the space program, and moon landing hoaxes in general. What really got me was the dishonest way they played the recordings from the Apollo 1 test, where the three astronauts died accidentally and the idea was being put forth that the recording of Grissom and the two others were screaming, so that was 'proof' that Grissom had 'proof' Apollo was fake and was killed for it.

They also talked about the manipulation of history by the USSR concerning their space program, and 'lost' cosmonauts as well.

So, did anyone see it and what were your reactions? I'm 46 and cannot believe anyone still believes the US didn't go to the moon several times and bring the astronauts home.

[Philthy]

Bart Sibrel? His crap has been debunked for decades. Marcus Allen the same. Neither of these guys have any idea what they are talking about. AHC.com would only let me see about 2:58 minutes of this crap, about 3 minutes too long. The best video Sibrel was ever in or part of was the one where Buzz Aldrin punched him in the nose.

Phil

[The Question]

Bart Sibrel, yes. He actually tried to come off looking like he was the better person after they showed the clip of Buzz A. punching him in the face after Sibrel called him 'a coward and a liar'. Saying something like 'I'd laugh if I was an astronaut and someone accused me of not going to the moon, and then I'd swear on two or three bibles!' I couldn't believe he'd misrepresent himself to 'interview' these men about their achievement, and then call them liars.

I just cannot understand why someone would believe science, engineering and thousands of men and women couldn't get a handful of men to walk on the moon if we went from the Wright Brothers' flight in 1903 to jets in WW2, then manned spaceflight in the late 50s to the 70s.

Is it ignorance that drives these people to believe the US didn't land men on the moon, because they don't understand the science and technical aspects behind the scenes? Or a need to feel special, like they have solved some mystery?

[ineluki]

Is it ignorance ... Or a need to feel special

Let's just say, the motives of Hoaxers have been debated often and some possibilties are quite speculative...

There are
- those who lie for money
- those who lie out of political motives or because they teel they have an axe to grind with the US or the Government
- those who choose to believe that it was impossible because they don't understand the physics
- those who choose to believe in conspiracies because it gives them a scapegoat for everything that's wrong in the world and their life
- those who have been exposed to the lies and lack the necessary knowledge to refute it
and (imho the group most leftover Hoaxers belong to these days)
- Trolls, Webvandals and other unsavory characters.

[gillianren]

And a very, very few suffering from psychological delusions, though that group are nowhere near as large as some would have it.  The liars and those who want to feel special are much more common.

[Glom]

Wasn't Sibrel one of those creationist types?

[JayUtah]

Is it ignorance that drives these people to believe the US didn't land men on the moon, because they don't understand the science and technical aspects behind the scenes? Or a need to feel special, like they have solved some mystery?

In Sibrel's case it's ego and money.  He is a shameless self-promoter, and indeed fancies himself as some sort of legitimate investigative reporter.  (He isn't.)  That much can be seen just from the public record.  As to money, I've been advised privately by people who were once close to him that the revenue from his hoax films doesn't make him rich, but lets him enjoy a lifestyle he would otherwise be unable to afford.  I worked on a television program once whose producers considered having him on.  Sibrel demanded an exorbitant "appearance fee" that the producers did not want to pay, so they went with Kaysing and Rene instead.  Sibrel later went on to claim in a YouTube comment that he had been rejected because no one could debunk his accusations.  That's a bald-faced lie; he was rejected solely on the basis of his greed.  So I'm inclined to believe the insinuation that he's profit-oriented.

There is no question Sibrel understands very little of the science, but that doesn't matter.  Professional conspiracism is never about erring in ignorance; it's about deliberate misrepresentation for whatever reward they think they can get out of it.

[JayUtah]

Wasn't Sibrel one of those creationist types?

Arguable; he was at one time a member of the Nashville congregation of the International Churches of Christ, who are criticized for being cultist.  And at one time there was a report he had joined the clergy of some church.  But I don't really view those personal facts as relevant.  As attractive as it is to reach for any and all available facts that seem advantageous, there is more to be gained by taking the high road and addressing only what is public and relevant.

[The Question]

Thanks to all of you for answering! I didn't want to make a new topic, or maybe I should have, but..

Was this actually possible? "With the end of the decade already looming over NASA, the agency started considering other ways to get to the Moon. One possibility was to use the Gemini spacecraft, the one then under development by McDonnell, the company who also built the Mercury spacecraft. "

She's a 'Vintage Space' YTuber.

Thanks, it seemed very interesting.

[raven]

There was a few ideas around that used Gemini hardware for getting to the moon. Some good reading behind the links.

[The Question]

Raven

Thanks for the info! So, when do you think, using lunar Gemini as a guide - when would be the earliest NASA could have gotten to the moon using this tech (assuming funding wasn't an issue)? It gives me an idea for a fanfiction.

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

Using Gemini to beat the Soviets to the Moon was the basic plot of the film Countdown (US-1967).

A rather mediocre space movie.

[raven]

Raven

Thanks for the info! So, when do you think, using lunar Gemini as a guide - when would be the earliest NASA could have gotten to the moon using this tech (assuming funding wasn't an issue)? It gives me an idea for a fanfiction.

The second link posits it would have been about 6 months early, around when Apollo 8 was orbiting the moon in our timeline.  I, myself, can not say more. I am not an engineer, nor do I play one on TV. Another Apollo alternate that may interest you is Apollo D-2, a study by General Electric. It more or less follows the same  three module plan as Soyuz for the orbiting spacecraft, resulting in very significant mass savings.

[smartcooky]

I love threads that stick it to Sibrel, mainly because it presents another opportunity post this...





....the single best two seconds of video ever shot!!


Enjoy it, over and over and over and over...........