Radiation

[nomuse]

I calculated the VAB transit time at 4.5 hours based on the Apollo 11 logs.  You can use any transit time you can defend but it doesn't really matter.  Whatever time you use or whatever average background radiation you surmise the results will be magnitudes above apollo 11's dose.  There is no getting around the facts.  It can not have happened and therefore it didn't.  I have shown you that it was a magic trick now you need to figure out how they did all that impossible to fake video because the evidence of the hoax is before you..

No you have been shown that a shorter path was traveled.  No 4.5 hrs through the belts less than 2 hours. Again you fail to understand the trajectory.

Timfinch cannot fathom 3D spatial reasoning. We established that already.

For me, the jury is still out on 2D.

[timfinch]

I recommend we take a breather from all this and consider the implication of the information we have unveiled.  It is a lot to digest.  I don't want it to be true but intellectual integrity places it's demands on me.  I had hoped that my suspicions would unravel under close scrutiny but alas, it has not.  I will spend the rest of the day trying to correct the CraTer Data into an actual record of daily doses.  Until tomorrow.  Be vigilant and never abandon your wingman logic.

[gillianren]

Tim, I don't think you understand how this works.

The reality of Apollo has been proven to the satisfaction of all the world's experts in every relevant field.  Every single one, all over the world.  Therefore, when you are making claims counter to that, it is your obligation to show that you know what you're talking about.  Which, yes, means answering all questions.  And not necessarily having your own answered, because we are doing you the favour of assuming you're smart enough to figure things out on your own.

Further, let me explain a little about how "reasonable doubt" works.  The fact is, it is not reasonable to believe that your belief that a single thing doesn't work somehow proves that literally everything else was faked.  What is considerably more reasonable is that you don't know what you're talking about.  You have yet to explain why you believe that isn't the reasonable explanation.

And as for Cosmoquest?  Yeah, you were in violation of a whole bunch of rules there.  Just because you start a thread doesn't mean you set the rules for it.  Duh.

Contraire mon ami.  If I prove your car has never had an engine then do I subsequently need to prove that you did not drive your car across country?  You say But I arrived across country therefore it is proof that I did.  Really?  Is it?  As far as you doing me favors,  well perspective is everything.  I feel I am doing you all favors by haring a perspective that does not exist in the singularity of thought within the group.  I feel you guys should create a go fund me account to compensate me for the effort.  What do I know?

First off, it's au contraire.  Second, I'm not your ami, even leaving aside that I'd be your amie.  Third, you're still wrong, and this kind of patronizing nonsense is why you got suspended in the first place.

You have not proven the car has no engine.  At absolute best, you have proved that you don't understand how fuel efficiency works.  I have shown you ticket stubs from attractions across the country with my fingerprints on them.  I have shown you date-stamped pictures of me in front of buildings there, and other people have taken pictures showing me from different angles that show I was there.  You haven't looked at my car.  You have claimed, without knowing anything about my engine, that I haven't stopped for gas often enough.  But you don't know what mileage my car gets or what route I took to get there.

[Abaddon]

I calculated the VAB transit time at 4.5 hours based on the Apollo 11 logs.  You can use any transit time you can defend but it doesn't really matter.  Whatever time you use or whatever average background radiation you surmise the results will be magnitudes above apollo 11's dose.  There is no getting around the facts.  It can not have happened and therefore it didn't.  I have shown you that it was a magic trick now you need to figure out how they did all that impossible to fake video because the evidence of the hoax is before you..

No you have been shown that a shorter path was traveled.  No 4.5 hrs through the belts less than 2 hours. Again you fail to understand the trajectory.

NASA considered two trajectories. 

Wrong. You think two because those are the only two that you have been instructed to consider by your masters.

The first was a direct one straight through the heart of the VAB to the moon

And what were the others? You don't know.

and the second one a translunar injection using a technique invented and proven by the Russians.  They determined the direct shot would actually receive the least radiation because the speed and time in the heart of the VAB would actually reduce overall exposure.

And Apollo somehow didn't know that because???

The Russian method spent more time in the VAB but was far more fuel efficient.  They opted for the the Russian method. 

All of a sudden, you are claiming that living beings actually can traverse the VAB.

There is no secret safe passage.

Nobody claimed there was. That was your claim. Are you now stating you lied?

Many pretend it is but they cannot document it.

Sure, apart from all of the documentation. If one ignores that then there is no documentation.

Why would we send the Orion into the heart of the VAB if such a path had been discovered?

Wow. You really can't work that out. According to your very own rules, Orion is clearly a fake.

I have a serious aversion to the extent of a rule against calling anyone a moron. Please do not make me break that rule.

[onebigmonkey]

Abaddon are you a government troll?  Is it your job  to act as a diversion, to distract the intelligent exchange of information and perspective?  What is your agenda here.  You are a negative component detracting from the overall good of friendly discourse.  Why the moderators remain silent is a source of interest to me.

There is no friendly discourse, just your pompous posturing. The wide-eyed "who me?" shtick is as tedious as it is unoriginal and transparent.

[Jason Thompson]

I recommend we take a breather from all this and consider the implication of the information we have unveiled.

No you won't, you'll just hunt around for something else to throw at the wall in the hope it will stick.

I don't want it to be true but intellectual integrity places it's demands on me.

Absolute cobblers. You've done everything in your power to avoid saying you were wrong about anything. That is not integrity.

I will spend the rest of the day trying to correct the CraTer Data into an actual record of daily doses.

It doesn't need any conversion beyond what has already been done, namely averaging across the 24 readings for a single day. The units of the graph mean something, you just don't want that to be true because you'd have to admit you were wrong about the signifcance of the data.

[Abaddon]

I recommend we take a breather from all this and consider the implication of the information we have unveiled. 

Why? All that has been revealed is that you are clueless about Apollo. Why would we conspire with you to hide your ignorance?

It is a lot to digest. 

For you, perhaps, but you have revealed your ignorance of the subject matter. Why should anyone pander to that ignorance?

I don't want it to be true but intellectual integrity places it's demands on me.

You clearly have none. Why else would you be appealing for you proposed crank beliefs to be given a bye?

I had hoped that my suspicions would unravel under close scrutiny but alas, it has not.

They have.

I will spend the rest of the day trying to correct the CraTer Data into an actual record of daily doses.  Until tomorrow.

You can't, You have demonstrated that you can't. Your credibility is not a boomerang. It is not coming back.

Be vigilant and never abandon your wingman logic.

Sure. Cranks need to be exposed. We agree.

[Abaddon]

Abaddon are you a government troll?  Is it your job  to act as a diversion, to distract the intelligent exchange of information and perspective?  What is your agenda here.  You are a negative component detracting from the overall good of friendly discourse.  Why the moderators remain silent is a source of interest to me.

Not American, don't live in America, don't have much contact with Americans.

I inhabit the other 95% of humanity. Is that the best you can up with? Insults based on BS? That is it? Sure, in the past, I have had copious contact with various Americans, and still do to an extent. Without exception, all of them agree that your contentions are full of it. Your own compadres agree that you contentions are nucky futs.  In fact, the only thing preventing  me concluding that the USA is a third world country ARE the sane americans that I know personally.

So go take a break for as long as you like. Your crank notions will remain crank notions no matter how long you wait.

And promoting such notions simply make your country seem like a dick. If the US faked it all, then everyone will think that the US is an abject liar. Is that what you want? You want to discredit the US and make it a pariah state? That is your goal?

Hardly seems like the action of a patriot, does it?

For me, it's thousands of miles away and is becoming increasingly irrelevant on a world stage. I understand that bends you out of shape, but I don't care. America does not matter anymore on a world stage. They could, but they have chosen not to. Not my problem.

[Abaddon]

I recommend we take a breather from all this and consider the implication of the information we have unveiled.  It is a lot to digest.  I don't want it to be true but intellectual integrity places it's demands on me.  I had hoped that my suspicions would unravel under close scrutiny but alas, it has not.  I will spend the rest of the day trying to correct the CraTer Data into an actual record of daily doses.  Until tomorrow.  Be vigilant and never abandon your wingman logic.

You must be hating the Chinese doing a manned mission. and the Indians, and the japenese. That must really annoy you because  that will demonstrate the trajectory and all of a sudden you have nothing.
 

[Jason Thompson]

Abaddon are you a government troll?

I repeat my earlier question: which government? And why do you assume Abbadon (or any of us) have anything to do with that government?

Is it your job  to act as a diversion, to distract the intelligent exchange of information and perspective?

No-one has been distracted. There are dozens of pages of answers to all your questions.

Why the moderators remain silent is a source of interest to me.

Leaving aside the obvious implication, maybe it's because you've been back a day and perhaps the one single moderator on this privately-owned messageboard has other things to be doing with his time. Of course if he was here policing the board you'd accuse him of being a paid government shill because why else would he be spending so much time on a messageboard. Do you honestly think we haven't seen this all before?

[molesworth]

You have not proven the car has no engine.  At absolute best, you have proved that you don't understand how fuel efficiency works.  I have shown you ticket stubs from attractions across the country with my fingerprints on them.  I have shown you date-stamped pictures of me in front of buildings there, and other people have taken pictures showing me from different angles that show I was there.  You haven't looked at my car.  You have claimed, without knowing anything about my engine, that I haven't stopped for gas often enough.  But you don't know what mileage my car gets or what route I took to get there.

Thanks Gillian - an excellent analogy!

Tim is at the stage of having doubts about the receipts produced for buying fuel on the trip, despite having demonstrated no understanding of how a car engine works, or what the factory fuel efficency is for your model...

[molesworth]

...

How do you like me now?

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." </Mal>   

[benparry]

I personally have 3 questions about tims maths. I mean the big maths bit a few pages back. he says 0.0001 per second but the graph says silican. what does this mean. also he says 4.5 hours but I believe it was 3.5 there and 2.5 back so that would make a difference. also he gets from 0.0001 to about 5 mgy. how does he do this. he multiplies by 3600 to get from seconds to hours and then by 4.5 for the hours but why does he times by 10 to get to mgy.

also he says 0.24 for GCR. am I correct in saying this is too high. also there does this 35% figure come from about the lunar radiation

[timfinch]

While creating my new Crater graph I ran across this bit of documentation that shows the silicon to water correction factor has indeed been added.  FYI.

# CRaTER (GCR+SEP) dose rates for individual and combined detectors
#    from 2009-06-26 DOY:177
# through 2017-03-26 DOY:085
#
# Columns are separated by a tab character.
# All dose rate units: cGy / day
# All dose rates have a silicon to water correction applied and are altitude corrected to the lunar surface.
#
# column_titles: Julian Date,Year,DOY,Year Fraction,H2O Factor,Altitude Factor,Good Event Factor,D1&2 dose rate,D3&4 dose rate,D5&6 dose rate,D1 dose rate,D2 dose rate,D3 dose rate,D4 dose rate,D5 dose rate,D6 dose rate
# column_units: ,,,,,,,cGy/day,cGy/day,cGy/day,cGy/day,cGy/day,cGy/day,cGy/day,cGy/day,cGy/day
# start_year: 2009
# start_doy: 177
# end_year: 2017
# end_doy: 085

[Jason Thompson]

That would be the 'bit of documentation' that is right at the top of the data file you supposedly downloaded some time ago? Super sluething skills there....