Radiation

[Luke Pemberton]

I don't want to seem impatient but does anyone have anything?

1.  Explain why the Apollo 3D trajectory would appear to be a straight line when projected onto 2D.

2.  What types of secondary radiation are produced in the CM as it traverses the belts?

3.  Explain the mechanism for the secondary radiation.

4.  How does the material in the hull affect the spectrum of radiation produced.

5.  Describe the penetration of that secondary radiation through the CM.

6.  How does the integral flux for electrons > 1 MeV change with energy?

[timfinch]

I grow disillusioned by the lack of moderation and the obfuscation.  Are there no serious seeker's of truth to be found?  I am asking for my friend Diogenes.

[timfinch]

I don't want to seem impatient but does anyone have anything?

1.  Explain why the Apollo 3D trajectory would appear to be a straight line when projected onto 2D.

2.  What types of secondary radiation are produced in the CM as it traverses the belts?

3.  Explain the mechanism for the secondary radiation.

4.  How does the material in the hull affect the spectrum of radiation produced.

5.  Describe the penetration of that secondary radiation through the CM.

6.  How does the integral flux for electrons > 1 MeV change with energy?

These are indeed all good questions but most distract from the focus of the original inquiry.

From a side view perspective any deviation from the lunar plane would be a distortion of the straight line.  As long as the flight path remains on the lunar plane then it is correctly represented by a straight line.

[Luke Pemberton]

These are indeed all good questions but most distract from the focus of the original inquiry.

Please answer the questions as they relate directly to the passage of the CM through the VABs.

From a side view perspective any deviation from the lunar plane would be a distortion of the straight line.  As long as the flight path remains on the lunar plane then it is correctly represented by a straight line.

What lunar plane and what do you mean by the flight path remaining on the lunar plane?

[bknight]

If it as you would have use believe, that 8 gm/cm^3 aluminum shielding can shield 90% of proton flux and assuming in doing so no secondary radiation is created then using Braeunig's own totals of 179.67 rem for both transits would still yield 17.97 rem.  Make that work without magic.

No magic, but a bit of shifting involved, that is outward and inward with no shielding involved.  So what is the net benefit of the Apollo capsule?
It seems odd that you quote this number but refuse to accept the rest of the calculations.  Does this happen because those figures completely destroy your belief?

So what is it you expect of me?  Should I repeat the magic tick and call it quits?  Honestly, are you claiming the apollo craft was capable of shielding greater than 90% of the harmful primary and secondary radiation of the VAB.  Is that your claim?

Yes, clearly the calculations prove that, backed up by the total dosimeters that each of the crew wore.

[timfinch]

Let's put this single point of contention behind us so we can move on.  Does the flight path of the Orion EFT mirror the flight path of the Apollo lunar mission?  This is a yes or no question deserving of only a simple yes or no.  Be warned, a no answer will require some splanning Lucy.

[timfinch]

If it as you would have use believe, that 8 gm/cm^3 aluminum shielding can shield 90% of proton flux and assuming in doing so no secondary radiation is created then using Braeunig's own totals of 179.67 rem for both transits would still yield 17.97 rem.  Make that work without magic.

No magic, but a bit of shifting involved, that is outward and inward with no shielding involved.  So what is the net benefit of the Apollo capsule?
It seems odd that you quote this number but refuse to accept the rest of the calculations.  Does this happen because those figures completely destroy your belief?

So what is it you expect of me?  Should I repeat the magic tick and call it quits?  Honestly, are you claiming the apollo craft was capable of shielding greater than 90% of the harmful primary and secondary radiation of the VAB.  Is that your claim?

Yes, clearly the calculations prove that, backed up by the total dosimeters that each of the crew wore.

Only if the assumption the dosimeters actually represent something more than an ELO mission.  Which is the heart of the debate.  We have yet to demonstrate that assumption is a valid one.

[Abaddon]

No. You have provided an OPINION based solely on your lack of understanding and inability to read the material.

Is the secondary radiation EM or particles?

You lie like a cheap  rug.  I have provided you with flight profiles for both the Orion EFT and all the Apollo missions.  Show some intellectual integrity and either accept it or refute it and desist in the obfusticating.

again you have offended. lie like a cheap rug. Tim you have been shown the flight path of the Apollo vehicles. they did not interact with the VAB inner belt. they skirted the outer belt.

I will repeat what Gillian has said quite a few times.

the entire scientific community, thousands of people over 5 decades all agree that this is the case and the manned lunar landings were real. you keep saying that there has been a desire to push dis information and lies but cant it be true that you are simply wrong.

I believe I said this next quote earlier in this thread and was shot down (by Gillian I think). the disbelief of the lunar landings is psychological.

Ben you are confusing me.  Are you implying that disagreeing with a woman is the misogynistic.  Gillian is a sniper on the hill taking pot shots and refusing to engage.  Most assuredly I have little respect for her position but that does not imply a lack of respect for her gender.

Certainly not but you have made comments that perhaps you wouldn't say to a man. You also say she is taking pot shots. One particular potshot which you haven't answered yet is could it simply be that you are wrong.

The only remark that I made to her was to apologize  for the perceived insult to her gender.  It is true that I would not make such an apology to a man but other than that there has been no indiscretion on my part.  Ben, you like the others obfuscate to distract from the subject matter.  You want to make gender bias the subject when it is really nothing to do with gender.  This is about lunar trajectory and anything else is a diversion.  Stay on point.

But you clearly do not understand TLI. What hope is there that you might understand misogyny?

[bknight]

We are burning up daylight here.  Can anyone refute the flight paths or is it time to acknowledge the truth of the matter?

You haven't provided an Apollo flight path to refute. You provided Apollo Earth orbit data.

I second that statement!

[Luke Pemberton]

Let's put this single point of contention behind us so we can move on.  Does the flight path of the Orion EFT mirror the flight path of the Apollo lunar mission?  This is a yes or no question deserving of only a simple yes or no.  Be warned, a no answer will require some splanning Lucy.

No, there are no single points to my questions, they examine the complexity of the problem; the passage of the CM through the VABs which you claim is not possible. Please answer them, as I take refusal as buying time as you spend 5 days Google searching for information. They are on the table now to be answered tonight. That is how this works. Demonstrate your expertise in real time, not flounce-Google time.

[bknight]

I don't want to seem impatient but does anyone have anything?  Bueller?  Anyone?

Snide condescending remarks are not really necessary

[Abaddon]

If it as you would have use believe, that 8 gm/cm^3 aluminum shielding can shield 90% of proton flux and assuming in doing so no secondary radiation is created then using Braeunig's own totals of 179.67 rem for both transits would still yield 17.97 rem.  Make that work without magic.

No magic, but a bit of shifting involved, that is outward and inward with no shielding involved.  So what is the net benefit of the Apollo capsule?
It seems odd that you quote this number but refuse to accept the rest of the calculations.  Does this happen because those figures completely destroy your belief?

So what is it you expect of me?  Should I repeat the magic tick and call it quits?  Honestly, are you claiming the apollo craft was capable of shielding greater than 90% of the harmful primary and secondary radiation of the VAB.  Is that your claim?

Yes, clearly the calculations prove that, backed up by the total dosimeters that each of the crew wore.

Only if the assumption the dosimeters actually represent something more than an ELO mission.  Which is the heart of the debate.  We have yet to demonstrate that assumption is a valid one.

The dosimeters "represent" nothing. They simply are a measure of what happened.

[Mag40]

From a side view perspective any deviation from the lunar plane would be a distortion of the straight line.  As long as the flight path remains on the lunar plane then it is correctly represented by a straight line.

That is a truly epic fail of an observation. The TLI flight path was 30 degrees to the ecliptic plane. The lunar orbit is inclined by 5.1 degrees and the only relevance this has is where it intersects the transfer orbit. Apollo flight paths are Earth orbits, as are the Orion.
Sadly for you that is all they have in common. The eccentricity of Apollo took it around the weaker areas of the belt and took it out to a path that intersected the Moon. Orion was only eccentric enough to allow it to travel through the inner belt.

How in heavens name can you say they are the same? They are completely different.

[bknight]

Let's put this single point of contention behind us so we can move on.  Does the flight path of the Orion EFT mirror the flight path of the Apollo lunar mission?  This is a yes or no question deserving of only a simple yes or no.  Be warned, a no answer will require some splanning Lucy.

No.

[timfinch]

From a side view perspective any deviation from the lunar plane would be a distortion of the straight line.  As long as the flight path remains on the lunar plane then it is correctly represented by a straight line.

That is a truly epic fail of an observation. The TLI flight path was 30 degrees to the ecliptic plane. The lunar orbit is inclined by 5.1 degrees and the only relevance this has is where it intersects the transfer orbit. Apollo flight paths are Earth orbits, as are the Orion.
Sadly for you that is all they have in common. The eccentricity of Apollo took it around the weaker areas of the belt and took it out to a path that intersected the Moon. Orion was only eccentric enough to allow it to travel through the inner belt.

How in heavens name can you say they are the same? They are completely different.

The most fuel efficient path to the moon is to place the craft on a lunar plane and then fire the TLI rocket to extend the circular object into an elliptical one that intercepts the moon.  any other path would require multiple stages to correct the misalignment.