Author Topic: Radiation  (Read 938117 times)

Offline timfinch

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2880 on: April 23, 2018, 03:15:04 PM »
That is not a nuke question.  A nuke question would be something like what chemical was stored onboard the submarine for an emergency means of shutting the reactor down and where was it stored?  Now that is a nuke question.  Write out the six factor formula and show how it varied with T-ave.  I have a thousand nuke questions would you like a few more?

Offline timfinch

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2881 on: April 23, 2018, 03:31:52 PM »
I have had a change of heart and I am ready to to make amends on one condition.  The condition is the group answer one single question.  If you were planning a lunar mission what  value would you assign to GCR background radiation,  what would you derive this value from and would it be an daily average?  If the group should answer this question truthfully.  Then I will apologize and in turn answer any and all questions asked of me.

Offline bknight

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2882 on: April 23, 2018, 03:38:11 PM »
Sorry for joining late into discussion. Keeping up with this thread is a chore.

I have one question for Tim*: as a former nuc, can you tell me where the diesel fuel tank is in a nuclear sub and why it is in that exact place?

Lurky

*if he chooses to answer and LO allows that post.
My curiosity is peaked.  PM the answer, please.
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Offline Al Johnston

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2883 on: April 23, 2018, 03:40:47 PM »
Not sure I'd trust Tim to be able to operate the toilet on a submarine, far less the reactor...
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Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2884 on: April 23, 2018, 05:30:58 PM »
In all honesty, I hope this is the end of the episode. His claims around our 3D-2D spatial reasoning needed to be closed down, they were insulting and showed complete disregard for genuine efforts to educate him on the matter.

I actually don't believe he's that stupid. I believe he thought he had the smoking gun with the graph, got caught out when it dawned on him he had read the graph incorrectly, and was using data from a different cycle. He then entered full troll mode with the Orion and Apollo trajectories as he could not back down at that point.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 05:46:21 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

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A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline MBDK

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2885 on: April 23, 2018, 06:26:30 PM »
Sorry for joining late into discussion. Keeping up with this thread is a chore.

I have one question for Tim*: as a former nuc, can you tell me where the diesel fuel tank is in a nuclear sub and why it is in that exact place?

Lurky

*if he chooses to answer and LO allows that post.

Oh, oh!  I know!  I know!   :-X
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Offline smartcooky

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2886 on: April 23, 2018, 08:29:44 PM »
In all honesty, I hope this is the end of the episode. His claims around our 3D-2D spatial reasoning needed to be closed down, they were insulting and showed complete disregard for genuine efforts to educate him on the matter.

I actually don't believe he's that stupid. I believe he thought he had the smoking gun with the graph, got caught out when it dawned on him he had read the graph incorrectly, and was using data from a different cycle. He then entered full troll mode with the Orion and Apollo trajectories as he could not back down at that point.

Comes under the general heading of digging a deeper hole; never a good idea if you ever have any intentional of getting out of it.
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2887 on: April 23, 2018, 09:28:19 PM »
I have had a change of heart and I am ready to to make amends on one condition.

Look at this guy. He actually thinks he's in a position to set conditions.  ;D

No. Answer the questions, and then I will consider taking you off moderation.

Here they are again:

2.  What types of secondary radiation are produced in the CM as it traverses the belts?

3.  Explain the mechanism for the secondary radiation.

4.  How does the material in the hull affect the spectrum of radiation produced.

5.  Describe the penetration of that secondary radiation through the CM.

6.  How does the integral flux for electrons > 1 MeV change with energy?

7. The geomagnetic axis and normal to the orbital plane at TLI are inclined to each other. How does this effect the distribution of radiation relative to the orbital plane?


Another question for tim: accepting for the moment Orion and Apollo had the same parking orbit in LEO, and remained have you considered the effect of Orion and Apollo starting their apogee-raising burns at different points in their orbit?



Quote
Then I will apologize and in turn answer any and all questions asked of me.

So you agree that you have something to apologize for then? I want you to apologize to the members of the forum and explain why you think it's necessary. Consider it one of the conditions for getting out of moderation.
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Offline nomuse

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2888 on: April 23, 2018, 09:55:38 PM »
I would not mind seeing an apology to forum members general and specific for the multiple, direct, abrasive accusations of being mathematically illiterate and lacking in any degree of spacial reasoning. As well as both implied and implicit accusations of being unable to read and comprehend written material. (And a strong implication that no-one here could, say, find a pdf at NASA.gov on our own.)

Not that he'd ever provide it, but it is pointless either way; with or without apologies or answers I can't see any reason for him to return.

Offline Obviousman

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2889 on: April 23, 2018, 10:50:52 PM »
That is not a nuke question.  A nuke question would be something like what chemical was stored onboard the submarine for an emergency means of shutting the reactor down and where was it stored?  Now that is a nuke question.  Write out the six factor formula and show how it varied with T-ave.  I have a thousand nuke questions would you like a few more?

If that is in reply to Northern Lurker then I would have to disagree.

You may operate a kettle but you are a submariner, first & foremost. You have to know every inch of the boat and have a good understanding of everyone else's job.

"That's not my part of ship" is not something a submariner says.

Offline timfinch

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2890 on: April 23, 2018, 11:30:29 PM »
That is not a nuke question.  A nuke question would be something like what chemical was stored onboard the submarine for an emergency means of shutting the reactor down and where was it stored?  Now that is a nuke question.  Write out the six factor formula and show how it varied with T-ave.  I have a thousand nuke questions would you like a few more?

If that is in reply to Northern Lurker then I would have to disagree.

You may operate a kettle but you are a submariner, first & foremost. You have to know every inch of the boat and have a good understanding of everyone else's job.

"That's not my part of ship" is not something a submariner says.
That being the case, what was the chemical and where was it stored?

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2891 on: April 24, 2018, 12:35:18 AM »
Look at this guy. He actually thinks he's in a position to set conditions.  ;D

I see you had the good grace to allow Tim to post his conditions. After our PM, I will ignore his posts until he has answered those questions. I think that sets the tone and makes it very crystal clear that he addresses outstanding issues that are relevant to his understanding of the radiation problem and his claim. The very idea that he thinks these questions are posed so he can carry out our research is insulting at the very least.

I am not your research boy or your pupil.


I would not mind seeing an apology to forum members general and specific for the multiple, direct, abrasive accusations of being mathematically illiterate and lacking in any degree of spacial reasoning. As well as both implied and implicit accusations of being unable to read and comprehend written material. (And a strong implication that no-one here could, say, find a pdf at NASA.gov on our own.)

I would add an apology for wasting time, a specific example being the manner in which he barely acknowledged Jason's model and various diagrams from other users, then persisted in a 'discussion' about 2D being a much better way to visualise complex spaces. As with the CRaTER data, his evidence that Orion and Apollo could be represented as a line into the VABs fell apart, and he had nothing to fall back on other than a gish gallop with his ridiculous claims about the merits of 2D over 3D, and cheap shots regarding our spatial awareness.

Also the various posts that suggest we had agreed on a position, when clearly we had not. I would like to see any condition of a return that he answers questions directly, cuts the obnoxious and condescending tone, and ceases with the aforementioned style of posts that I have described.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 12:45:12 AM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Northern Lurker

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2892 on: April 24, 2018, 12:45:51 AM »
That is not a nuke question.  A nuke question would be something like what chemical was stored onboard the submarine for an emergency means of shutting the reactor down and where was it stored?  Now that is a nuke question.  Write out the six factor formula and show how it varied with T-ave.  I have a thousand nuke questions would you like a few more?

If that is in reply to Northern Lurker then I would have to disagree.

You may operate a kettle but you are a submariner, first & foremost. You have to know every inch of the boat and have a good understanding of everyone else's job.

"That's not my part of ship" is not something a submariner says.


Tim the ex nuc submariner,  I want your answer to my question. Do you know the location of diesel fuel tank or not? Do you know why it is in that exact location or not?

Lurky

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2893 on: April 24, 2018, 12:53:17 AM »
I have had a change of heart and I am ready to to make amends on one condition.  The condition is the group answer one single question.  If you were planning a lunar mission what  value would you assign to GCR background radiation,  what would you derive this value from and would it be an daily average?  If the group should answer this question truthfully.  Then I will apologize and in turn answer any and all questions asked of me.

I wouldn't. I would assess the risk and balance those risks against crew safety. I'd test my vessel to make sure it could do what I asked it to do. There is no point assigning an average value: an average of 5 can be derived by values of 4, 5 and 6, or 1, 5 and 9. What you need is an assessment of the probability that your safety values will be exceeded and what you do about it if they are.

Offline MBDK

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2894 on: April 24, 2018, 12:54:44 AM »
That is not a nuke question.  A nuke question would be something like what chemical was stored onboard the submarine for an emergency means of shutting the reactor down and where was it stored?  Now that is a nuke question.  Write out the six factor formula and show how it varied with T-ave.  I have a thousand nuke questions would you like a few more?

If that is in reply to Northern Lurker then I would have to disagree.

You may operate a kettle but you are a submariner, first & foremost. You have to know every inch of the boat and have a good understanding of everyone else's job.

"That's not my part of ship" is not something a submariner says.


Tim the ex nuc submariner,  I want your answer to my question. Do you know the location of diesel fuel tank or not? Do you know why it is in that exact location or not?

Lurky

I agree that ANY person versed in the operation of a nuclear submarine would know that answer.  Off the top of their head, too.
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