Faking Space: Auditing Apollo, A Photographic Investigation

[Abaddon]

cambo, suppose I took the several tractor-trailer loads of hardcopy Apollo blueprints and dropped them in front of your abode for your perusal. What could you, with your superior aerospace knowledge, glean from them?

Suppose I burned said records?

[Abaddon]

cambo, suppose I took the several tractor-trailer loads of hardcopy Apollo blueprints and dropped them in front of your abode for your perusal. What could you, with your superior aerospace knowledge, glean from them?

Suppose I burned said records?

[AtomicDog]

cambo, suppose I took the several tractor-trailer loads of hardcopy Apollo blueprints and dropped them in front of your abode for your perusal. What could you, with your superior aerospace knowledge, glean from them?

Suppose I burned said records?

It would be quite a fire.

My point, though, is that HBs always say that they want this one bit of evidence that they think doesn't exist, and the fact that they can't find it is somehow proof of the hoax. I'm asking cambo to show me how he would ascertain the truth or falsity of Apollo from those blueprints.

[onebigmonkey]

~snips wall of crap~

Keep the comments coming guys, I’ve got nothing in my diary for the foreseeable future.

I gave you the one piece of evidence you asked for, you seem determined not to respond.

[apollo16uvc]

Is there an American on here that can send a FOIA request to the parties that hold the microfilm plans with Saturn-V plans?

Would be great to finally have those.

Depending on the cost, I am sure many of us are happy to divide the cost between us all.

No, such a mythical person or entity simply cannot possibly exist. Grumman have their blueprints, Lockheed have theirs, Boeing have theirs and so forth. It is an effort to track those down simply because they are diverse One can  track those down, sure. but there does not exist a central repository.  Each of the subcontractors is at liberty to retain such records or not as they see fit. They are private entities. Having acted as an auditor in a professional capacity, I can tell you for a fact. What you did in 1066 at the battle of Hastings is deeply uninteresting. I want to know what you do now.

You are making very little sense.

Anyways, wrong:

Paul Shawcross, from NASA's Office of Inspector General, came to the agency's defense in comments published on CCNet -- a scholarly electronic newsletter covering the threat of asteroids and comets. Shawcross said the Saturn 5 blueprints are held at the Marshall Space Flight Center on microfilm.

"The Federal Archives in East Point, Georgia, also has 2,900 cubic feet of Saturn documents," he said. "Rocketdyne has in its archives dozens of volumes from its Knowledge Retention Program. This effort was initiated in the late '60s to document every facet of F 1 and J 2 engine production to assist in any future restart."

So again, if an American could send a FOIA request to Marshall Space Flight Center that would be great.

[Luke Pemberton]

My point, though, is that HBs always say that they want this one bit of evidence that they think doesn't exist, and the fact that they can't find it is somehow proof of the hoax. I'm asking cambo to show me how he would ascertain the truth or falsity of Apollo from those blueprints.

The blueprints argument. We had that with fattydash, until Jay pointed out that they would fill several warehouses. I can't quite remember what Jay said, but if I recall it was along the lines that drafting one design for a particular component could result in numerous drafts; each draft providing an audit to previous iterations of component design. The HBs don't understand the sheer number of components involved in the Saturn V. The idea that cambo thinks all one needs is a filing cabinet is ludicrous.

A proportion of the actual drawings were destroyed by the contractors (if I recall Jay correctly) as they had fulfilled their contractual obligations and were not going to carry the cost of storing the documents.

[nomuse]

I have a NASA T-shirt.  But I have two MST3K T-shirts, and I wouldn't die for them, either.

I really need to get a NASA T-shirt. I need something to go with my pyjamas, when drinking hot chocolate from my NASA mug, while sitting in my NASA slippers and NASA dressing gown (US version of the word please?), before tucking into bed with my NASA pillow cases and NASA quilt cover, in my NASA wallpapered bedroom and NASA nightlight. 

I do need a NASA T-shirt though.

I have a Walking Dead shirt, a Joker shirt, a Deadpool shirt, a Taco Bell Chihuahua shirt, and I'm currently wearing a Tesla shirt. No NASA shirt, though.

I've got a Van Allen t-shirt. His initials, arranged so it looks like the Van Halen band logo. I've yet to find a place I can wear it; either they recognize one, or the other. Never both.

[Obviousman]

I have T-shirts from 'Walking the Room', 'The Dollop', two US Navy shirts, one Eglin AFB shirt, two NASM and one NASA / JSC t-shirts.

Guess I must be part of the Military Industrial Complex (comedy sub-section).

[nomuse]

I see no point in engaging the cam bot. He hasn't said anything interesting, he doesn't know the subject, and his posts are too unfocused to try to reply to.

[Abaddon]

Is there an American on here that can send a FOIA request to the parties that hold the microfilm plans with Saturn-V plans?

Would be great to finally have those.

Depending on the cost, I am sure many of us are happy to divide the cost between us all.

No, such a mythical person or entity simply cannot possibly exist. Grumman have their blueprints, Lockheed have theirs, Boeing have theirs and so forth. It is an effort to track those down simply because they are diverse One can  track those down, sure. but there does not exist a central repository.  Each of the subcontractors is at liberty to retain such records or not as they see fit. They are private entities. Having acted as an auditor in a professional capacity, I can tell you for a fact. What you did in 1066 at the battle of Hastings is deeply uninteresting. I want to know what you do now.

You are making very little sense.

Anyways, wrong:

Paul Shawcross, from NASA's Office of Inspector General, came to the agency's defense in comments published on CCNet -- a scholarly electronic newsletter covering the threat of asteroids and comets. Shawcross said the Saturn 5 blueprints are held at the Marshall Space Flight Center on microfilm.

"The Federal Archives in East Point, Georgia, also has 2,900 cubic feet of Saturn documents," he said. "Rocketdyne has in its archives dozens of volumes from its Knowledge Retention Program. This effort was initiated in the late '60s to document every facet of F 1 and J 2 engine production to assist in any future restart."

So again, if an American could send a FOIA request to Marshall Space Flight Center that would be great.

Not sure I can dumb it down enough for you.  I could try, but am unsure if it would make the slightest iota of any difference to you to even make the effort. Colour me wrong, but if you think for a second that any central repositry exists then you are flat out wrong. Sure there exists some optomistic folks that think one can pull it all into some central database. Has not worked ever.

Besides, it is a NASA endeavour, populated by NASA shills. Of course it will be wrong, no?

[Abaddon]

So again, if an American could send a FOIA request to Marshall Space Flight Center that would be great.

What is stopping you from doing that very thing? What prevents you issuing that very FOIA request? It cannot be that you are not a USian, because that is no block to issuing an FOIA. So why have you not done it?

[apollo16uvc]

So again, if an American could send a FOIA request to Marshall Space Flight Center that would be great.

What is stopping you from doing that very thing? What prevents you issuing that very FOIA request? It cannot be that you are not a USian, because that is no block to issuing an FOIA. So why have you not done it?

I thought only a USA citizen could file a FOIA request. However, I do not know how it works. Nor do I think I know enough about the subject to file a proper FOIA request. I think it is best to email the  Marshall Space Flight Center first to get more details. Maybe they have already scanned all the microfilm and can provide it.

[apollo16uvc]

Is there an American on here that can send a FOIA request to the parties that hold the microfilm plans with Saturn-V plans?

Would be great to finally have those.

Depending on the cost, I am sure many of us are happy to divide the cost between us all.

No, such a mythical person or entity simply cannot possibly exist. Grumman have their blueprints, Lockheed have theirs, Boeing have theirs and so forth. It is an effort to track those down simply because they are diverse One can  track those down, sure. but there does not exist a central repository.  Each of the subcontractors is at liberty to retain such records or not as they see fit. They are private entities. Having acted as an auditor in a professional capacity, I can tell you for a fact. What you did in 1066 at the battle of Hastings is deeply uninteresting. I want to know what you do now.

You are making very little sense.

Anyways, wrong:

Paul Shawcross, from NASA's Office of Inspector General, came to the agency's defense in comments published on CCNet -- a scholarly electronic newsletter covering the threat of asteroids and comets. Shawcross said the Saturn 5 blueprints are held at the Marshall Space Flight Center on microfilm.

"The Federal Archives in East Point, Georgia, also has 2,900 cubic feet of Saturn documents," he said. "Rocketdyne has in its archives dozens of volumes from its Knowledge Retention Program. This effort was initiated in the late '60s to document every facet of F 1 and J 2 engine production to assist in any future restart."

So again, if an American could send a FOIA request to Marshall Space Flight Center that would be great.

Not sure I can dumb it down enough for you.  I could try, but am unsure if it would make the slightest iota of any difference to you to even make the effort. Colour me wrong, but if you think for a second that any central repositry exists then you are flat out wrong. Sure there exists some optomistic folks that think one can pull it all into some central database. Has not worked ever.

Besides, it is a NASA endeavour, populated by NASA shills. Of course it will be wrong, no?

And why do you think you have a better understanding of the archive status than someone working at NASA?

[cambo]

“So the ball is in your court, you pick a subject and we'll be more than happy to discuss.  Your choice.”

Ok, I’ll choose the subject of Apollo, I’ve already started, so feel free to jump in.

“I'm a chemist, but I'm not sure how you "apply" Helium-3 to a rock sample in order for it to be absorbed into the molecular structure. Can you explicate how that's done?”

You claim to be a chemist, so obviously, the drawback to being a chemist is the inability to conduct simple research. Apparently it would be done with a particle accelerator, although it would only penetrate the first couple of millimetres. Thankfully however, there were plenty of meteorites around with Helium 3 already present, which were the ones that are alleged to have come from the moon.

“which NASA employees have homes in the Bahamas and drive Ferraris? An intrepid reporter could dig out that information in an afternoon.”

Why ask me? If you’re so interested, pick up the phone book and look under “I” for intrepid reporters.

“suppose I took the several tractor-trailer loads of hardcopy Apollo blueprints and dropped them in front of your abode for your perusal. What could you, with your superior aerospace knowledge, glean from them?”

Already addressed, read before you post.

“HBs always say that they want this one bit of evidence that they think doesn't exist, and the fact that they can't find it is somehow proof of the hoax”

This word proof seems to get mentioned a hell of a lot in this thread, even though I made it quite clear early on, to anyone with an attention span longer than a goldfish, that I don’t have proof, only circumstantial evidence. No I can’t find it and neither can you, so why shouldn’t I have the opinion that it may not exist. I believe a lot of stuff exists, that I haven’t seen with my own eyes. I’ve never seen a blue whale, but I believe they exist, but who knows, it’s just my opinion.

“I gave you the one piece of evidence you asked for, you seem determined not to respond”

Was it you that gave me a link, regarding the Apollo blueprints? If it was, then you must have posted the wrong link, as they weren’t there and nor could I find a link to them.

“The idea that cambo thinks all one needs is a filing cabinet is ludicrous.”

I thought it was a humorous thing to say at the time, but I now realise, humour and sarcasm isn’t something you people are familiar with.

“I see no point in engaging the cam bot. He hasn't said anything interesting, he doesn't know the subject, and his posts are too unfocused to try to reply to.”

Bye-bye.

[onebigmonkey]

This word proof seems to get mentioned a hell of a lot in this thread, even though I made it quite clear early on, to anyone with an attention span longer than a goldfish, that I don’t have proof, only circumstantial evidence. No I can’t find it and neither can you, so why shouldn’t I have the opinion that it may not exist. I believe a lot of stuff exists, that I haven’t seen with my own eyes. I’ve never seen a blue whale, but I believe they exist, but who knows, it’s just my opinion.

You started it:

Believe it or not, I am willing to consider any solid proof you may think you have

and actually I have already given you it.

“I gave you the one piece of evidence you asked for, you seem determined not to respond”

Was it you that gave me a link, regarding the Apollo blueprints? If it was, then you must have posted the wrong link, as they weren’t there and nor could I find a link to them.

No, it wasn't. Pay attention.