Faking Space: Auditing Apollo, A Photographic Investigation

[Obviousman]

What's remarkable is that cambo has seen none of these.

Really?

I don't find it in the last bit surprising.

He's already down the road of:

"I demand proof"

"This proof?"

"No, that proof fails on some arbitrary criterion or other that I didn't mention until you presented me with that proof. I want some other proof I'm pretty sure you don't have otherwise I wouldn't be asking for it..."

I again reference Jack White: 'I am more than willing to examine evidence that the Moon landings really happened but since we know they were faked, any evidence that says otherwise must also be faked and therefore it is a waste of my time to examine such evidence'.

[bknight]

What's remarkable is that cambo has seen none of these.

Really?

I don't find it in the last bit surprising.

He's already down the road of:

"I demand proof"

"This proof?"

"No, that proof fails on some arbitrary criterion or other that I didn't mention until you presented me with that proof. I want some other proof I'm pretty sure you don't have otherwise I wouldn't be asking for it..."

I again reference Jack White: 'I am more than willing to examine evidence that the Moon landings really happened but since we know they were faked, any evidence that says otherwise must also be faked and therefore it is a waste of my time to examine such evidence'.

I came to these forums after Jack died, but wasn't one of his favorites, "My work speaks for itself"?

[Geordie]

There's no point in providing all these pictures and diagrams and videos, because he has already handwaved away anything from NASA or any other third party as fake. Why feed the troll?

There is a point. Any occasional visitors will hopefully learn two things. A modicum of science and engineering, firstly. And secondly, exactly how idiotic cambo's arguments actually are.

I am happy and content to contribute to both goals.

  Thanks for doing so, and your points capture in a nutshell why I read these threads.

  The first explains what I get out of them. Being incensed by and then laughing at the poor trolling is a secondary benefit. Secondary, but awesome nevertheless.

[Abaddon]

There's no point in providing all these pictures and diagrams and videos, because he has already handwaved away anything from NASA or any other third party as fake. Why feed the troll?

There is a point. Any occasional visitors will hopefully learn two things. A modicum of science and engineering, firstly. And secondly, exactly how idiotic cambo's arguments actually are.

I am happy and content to contribute to both goals.

  Thanks for doing so, and your points capture in a nutshell why I read these threads.

  The first explains what I get out of them. Being incensed by and then laughing at the poor trolling is a secondary benefit. Secondary, but awesome nevertheless.

Thanks, but I have been doing this for years, so I have the benefit of experience. The likes of cambo trot out Aulis and the late Jack White's "photo analysis". It all seems just so iron clad except when one views
White's HSCA testimony...
Mr. GOLDSMITH: Mr. White, I just have one question.
Mr. WHITE: All right.
Mr. GOLDSMITH: When you did this study, did you compute photogrammetrically the effect of tilt on the way that the length of an object appears in a photograph?
Mr. WHITE: I conducted a study by photographing a yardstick from three different-
Mr. GOLDSMITH Mr. White, answer my question. Did you compute photogrammetrically --
Mr. WHITE: What is "photogrammetrically"? Describe to me what "photogrammetrically" is.
Mr. GOLDSMITH: I just have one more question Mr. White. Do you know what photogrammetry is?
Mr. WHITE: No.
Mr. GOLDSMITH: I have no further questions. Thank you.

You read that right, White had no clue what Photogrammetry even was. Despite that, cranks will still wheel his "analysis" out as if it meant anything straight from Aulis. It was White who leant weight to the non parallel shadow baloney by dint of stolen valour.

Have a pic that messed him up, courtesy of member datacable...


In crankworld^TM all shadows must be parallel(lie) and the shadow of the photographer must be centered(lie). This image simply illustrates the lies. Nevertheless, cambo et al wheel this crap out as though reality does not happen.

I am nothing special, I stand on the shoulders of giants.

[Abaddon]

What's remarkable is that cambo has seen none of these.

Really?

I don't find it in the last bit surprising.

He's already down the road of:

"I demand proof"

"This proof?"

"No, that proof fails on some arbitrary criterion or other that I didn't mention until you presented me with that proof. I want some other proof I'm pretty sure you don't have otherwise I wouldn't be asking for it..."

I again reference Jack White: 'I am more than willing to examine evidence that the Moon landings really happened but since we know they were faked, any evidence that says otherwise must also be faked and therefore it is a waste of my time to examine such evidence'.

I came to these forums after Jack died, but wasn't one of his favorites, "My work speaks for itself"?

You missed his heyday. It was a mind-boggling stream of nonsense. AFAIK one can still see those discussions on education forum. And on Aulis.

[bknight]

What's remarkable is that cambo has seen none of these.

Really?

I don't find it in the last bit surprising.

He's already down the road of:

"I demand proof"

"This proof?"

"No, that proof fails on some arbitrary criterion or other that I didn't mention until you presented me with that proof. I want some other proof I'm pretty sure you don't have otherwise I wouldn't be asking for it..."

I again reference Jack White: 'I am more than willing to examine evidence that the Moon landings really happened but since we know they were faked, any evidence that says otherwise must also be faked and therefore it is a waste of my time to examine such evidence'.

I came to these forums after Jack died, but wasn't one of his favorites, "My work speaks for itself"?

You missed his heyday. It was a mind-boggling stream of nonsense. AFAIK one can still see those discussions on education forum. And on Aulis.

Yes they are still on the education forum and I have read some of it, the great debater between Fetzer and Burton.

[Jason Thompson]

There's no point in providing all these pictures and diagrams and videos, because he has already handwaved away anything from NASA or any other third party as fake. Why feed the troll?

There is a point. Any occasional visitors will hopefully learn two things. A modicum of science and engineering, firstly. And secondly, exactly how idiotic cambo's arguments actually are.

I am happy and content to contribute to both goals.

I guess I should clarify why I won't feed this troll in contrast to my tenacity with Tim Finch. Tim brought stuff to the table. He presented data and tried to show how it proved Apollo was fake. He brought specifics to the discussion, he tried some specific numbers and geometry in which errors could be clearly and unequivocally identified, and while it became apparent early on he'd never accept the answers, he didn't handwave the responses away before the discussion even began.

On the other hand, cambo practically started this discussion saying he would not accept evidence from NASA (liars) or from any third party (NASA-supporting liars), dismissed anyone who disagreed with at least one of his claims as 'lying or brainwashed', denounced all our science knowledge as 'fake science', and on top of that went down the 'cold war was fake' road. There's nowhere, literally, to go with that once you've highlighted how absurd that entire premise is. Worse, as has already been pointed out, he's not bringing anything new to the discussion. He's just watched a Sibrel video or two and is pulling those arguments out as if they are new and not long-debunked.

[smartcooky]

There's no point in providing all these pictures and diagrams and videos, because he has already handwaved away anything from NASA or any other third party as fake. Why feed the troll?

There is a point. Any occasional visitors will hopefully learn two things. A modicum of science and engineering, firstly. And secondly, exactly how idiotic cambo's arguments actually are.

I am happy and content to contribute to both goals.

I guess I should clarify why I won't feed this troll in contrast to my tenacity with Tim Finch. Tim brought stuff to the table. He presented data and tried to show how it proved Apollo was fake. He brought specifics to the discussion, he tried some specific numbers and geometry in which errors could be clearly and unequivocally identified, and while it became apparent early on he'd never accept the answers, he didn't handwave the responses away before the discussion even began.

On the other hand, cambo practically started this discussion saying he would not accept evidence from NASA (liars) or from any third party (NASA-supporting liars), dismissed anyone who disagreed with at least one of his claims as 'lying or brainwashed', denounced all our science knowledge as 'fake science', and on top of that went down the 'cold war was fake' road. There's nowhere, literally, to go with that once you've highlighted how absurd that entire premise is. Worse, as has already been pointed out, he's not bringing anything new to the discussion. He's just watched a Sibrel video or two and is pulling those arguments out as if they are new and not long-debunked.

Yup. that is why I have not really bothered posting much in this thread...

cambo just a troll; end of story. Not worth wasting time or effort on.

[Luke Pemberton]

Yup. that is why I have not really bothered posting much in this thread...

cambo just a troll; end of story. Not worth wasting time or effort on.

Ditto. Add to this the sort of anti-intellectualism displayed by Ralph Rene, another reason why I'm not really that bothered by cambo and this thread. I felt the gravity dark matter thing need addressing. As a physicist, I could not let that go unchallenged.

[gillianren]

Honestly, I feel as though I can bring more to the table this time.  No, cambo won't notice or care.  But for other people who might be swayed by some of the "cinematic" explanations, that's one of my areas of relative expertise, and it isn't written about as much.

[bknight]

Yup. that is why I have not really bothered posting much in this thread...

cambo just a troll; end of story. Not worth wasting time or effort on.

Ditto. Add to this the sort of anti-intellectualism displayed by Ralph Rene, another reason why I'm not really that bothered by cambo and this thread. I felt the gravity dark matter thing need addressing. As a physicist, I could not let that go unchallenged.

What post number did say something about dark matter?  I searched and only come up with this post.

[Jason Thompson]

What post number did say something about dark matter?  I searched and only come up with this post.

Post #68 in the 'Faking the Moon Landings' thread. Apparently if our theory of gravity is 'wrong' then all of spaceflight must be faked....

[Jason Thompson]

Honestly, I feel as though I can bring more to the table this time.  No, cambo won't notice or care.  But for other people who might be swayed by some of the "cinematic" explanations, that's one of my areas of relative expertise, and it isn't written about as much.

Very true. It tickles me somewhat that people tout Kubrck as the director of the faked Apollo footage, as it shows nicely how little understanding of the movie industry (and Kubrick specifically) they have. He may have been an influential American director who created some of the biggest movies of all time, but from 1961 he lived in the UK. His movies were shot over here using our world-famous studios. By the time Apollo was happening he was well-known enough that someone would have noticed him spending big chunks of time in the US that happened to coincide with Apollo missions, or the use of our studios to film the faked footage here, where he actually lived and worked.

[Luke Pemberton]

Very true. It tickles me somewhat that people tout Kubrck as the director of the faked Apollo footage, as it shows nicely how little understanding of the movie industry (and Kubrick specifically) they have. He may have been an influential American director who created some of the biggest movies of all time, but from 1961 he lived in the UK. His movies were shot over here using our world-famous studios. By the time Apollo was happening he was well-known enough that someone would have noticed him spending big chunks of time in the US that happened to coincide with Apollo missions, or the use of our studios to film the faked footage here, where he actually lived and worked.

... and all at the same time, someone threw the CM out of a military transport plane while a carrier and its crew watched before retrieving the space craft after reentry. Did Bill Kaysing propose this scenario? Yet another dimension that adds to the unlikelihood of a cover up.

[gillianren]

Very true. It tickles me somewhat that people tout Kubrck as the director of the faked Apollo footage, as it shows nicely how little understanding of the movie industry (and Kubrick specifically) they have. He may have been an influential American director who created some of the biggest movies of all time, but from 1961 he lived in the UK. His movies were shot over here using our world-famous studios. By the time Apollo was happening he was well-known enough that someone would have noticed him spending big chunks of time in the US that happened to coincide with Apollo missions, or the use of our studios to film the faked footage here, where he actually lived and worked.

Indeed.  There's no way Kubrick could have been the director simply because there's no way they could have forced him to travel to the US and no way the US government would have accepted filming the landings in the UK.