Faking Space: Auditing Apollo, A Photographic Investigation

[nomuse]

It's so...circular or something.

Kubrick filmed 2001. So the hoaxies reach for him as someone who could fake footage of moonwalkers. When shown all the ways 2001 is clearly a film, and not a convincing fake at all, they shrug; "he was told to mess up 2001 so no-one would figure out that he'd done the better-looking moon landings."

So you mean, he gives no public evidence of the skills you wanted him for? You know what? That argument works just as well for Ed Wood!

[raven]

Heh, Ed Wood. I absolutely love the guy. There's something endearing about someone who so absolutely sucked at doing what they loved and continued doing it. And it wasn't like it was a largely lone pursuit like painting or writing. He had to convince other people to fund his movies and work with him on them. Amazing!
If Ed Wood faked the moon landings, the LM really would have been made of cardboard. Heck, probably just a cardboard cut-out, waving in the breeze.

[gillianren]

At least they wouldn't have fought about how many takes he did.

[Peter B]

“How you would react and how people trained to land on the moon would react are not the same thing.”

I disagree, we are all human, and what these men were allegedly part of was just incredible, even by your standards, surely. It was the greatest achievement by mankind to date, and I and the rest of the world’s population in possession of their own faculties, would be buzzing our frigging nuts off. I’d turn up to that press conference in t-shirt and jeans, I’m a superstar after all. I’d be lying back on my chair with my hands clasped behind my head and my feet on the table with a joint hanging from my mouth, it was the sixties after all. My smug grin would be so wide, I’d get into the Guinness book of records. But you would be slouched there, looking down at the table, nervously fiddling with your pen, hoping no one would realise you were repeating the words you were hearing through your earpiece, As you knew nothing of what you did, because you never done it.

Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins had trained literally for years to do what they did on Apollo 11. Then, in the matter of a fortnight the mission was over (and in a matter of two hours the moonwalk was over). And that was it. No more space travel for any of them. Is it any surprise they were on a downer after the biggest high of their lives?

I can provide a comparison (on a different scale, but similar despite that) from my own life. I used to learn ballroom dancing at a studio which ran two balls a year. While the balls were mostly a chance for students to dress up and have fun doing what we'd paid to learn, we could also pay for extra lessons to learn a choreographed routine to perform at the ball. I did that, and spent a couple of months before the ball taking those extra lessons to learn a routine, as well as searching out suitable music for the dance I had in mind. I also searched out a costume appropriate to the routine. Lessons go by and you concentrate hard to learn the routine, getting more nervous as the ball approaches and you're not sure if you've learned it properly. Then, finally, it's the ball. You walk out onto the dance floor, perform your routine, and in two minutes it's over. The rest of the ball is a buzz from the adrenaline (and a bit of alcohol, and dancing with some lovely young women in beautiful ball gowns). But the next morning was such a downer that I remember thinking that if someone had told me I'd never be able to dance again I would have shrugged and accepted it. (The people who ran the dance studio were clever - they opened the studio that next morning, put on some biccies and strong coffee, and encouraged people to sign up for another routine.)

So I can completely understand why people who've just performed a most amazing thing can look so empty during the media circus.

[Peter B]

I gave you the one piece of evidence you asked for, you seem determined not to respond.

It must be your fuzzy black and white photo you are referring to, which I did respond to on page 4. Don’t be embarrassed, as I suppose my posts so far may have been a bit of a headache to get through.

Even back then, they were able to accurately predict weather patterns a day in advance, maybe not so much on a local scale, but on a global scale, I would say they would be bang on. In my original response, the one that you overlooked, I asked you to show me your work. Can you do that, or is it hidden away somewhere on microfilm?

So obviously, your photo came from the above telecast, right? Well it seems like it’s possible that I could be wrong in my assumption that they couldn’t even get men into orbit back then, as at around 15:10 we see a depiction of the way the earth might have looked from LEO. But hang on! Two completely different interpretations of the alleged earth in the same telecast? It’s ok, I got it now, it was complete BS!

 I also found the flashlight trick amusing, it’s a pity they never spun one of those food bags in mid “air”, although it wouldn’t be as easy without the aid of CGI.

How many examples would you like of astronauts messing around with food in zero gravity? How about you have a look at this video from 1985 showing examples of astronauts eating in zero gravity in Apollo (okay, not much), Skylab and the Shuttle:

And there are plenty of videos available from the ISS showing food preparation (and other activities) which are obviously being conducted in zero gravity over timescales which would be impossible in a Vomit Comet. How about this one as Canuckstronaut Chris Hadfield makes a burrito:

Before you dismiss it as a fake, watch it again. Look only at Hadfield's watch and explain its behaviour.

Or this one, making that American fave, peanut butter and jelly (two minutes, no cuts, things floating all over the place):

That it's so easy to find long-take videos of activities in zero gravity makes me wonder whether your skepticism about the ISS is just another example of your "humour".

[onebigmonkey]

I'm glad you picked this one out Peter, as I missed Cambo's pathetic response, for which I apologise.

So here's what he said:

It must be your fuzzy black and white photo you are referring to, which I did respond to on page 4. Don’t be embarrassed, as I suppose my posts so far may have been a bit of a headache to get through.

Even back then, they were able to accurately predict weather patterns a day in advance, maybe not so much on a local scale, but on a global scale, I would say they would be bang on. In my original response, the one that you overlooked, I asked you to show me your work. Can you do that, or is it hidden away somewhere on microfilm?

Yes, cambo, that is what I am referring to, however your claim is utterly ludicrous. At the time the science of satellite meteorology was in its infancy - they were still very much in the business of deciding how the readings they took from weather balloons and surface stations matched up with their visual observations. There is absolutely no way at all that they would have been able to predict the exact shape of Hurricane Bernice on July 16th from its configuration on July 15th.

No way at all. Feel free to demonstrate otherwise

My working is in the link in my sig and given to you since in either this or the other thread you've been active in. I suggest you read it and try and come up with something a little less stupid.

As for this:

So obviously, your photo came from the above telecast, right? Well it seems like it’s possible that I could be wrong in my assumption that they couldn’t even get men into orbit back then, as at around 15:10 we see a depiction of the way the earth might have looked from LEO. But hang on! Two completely different interpretations of the alleged earth in the same telecast? It’s ok, I got it now, it was complete BS!

Yes, your interpretation is complete BS, and Earth does not look like that in LEO. You see the whole Earth, as you can tell from the satellite images. There were several broadcasts featuring Earth on the way to the moon, and all of them showed Earth exactly as it should be, including the weather.

Try again.

[nomuse]

“How you would react and how people trained to land on the moon would react are not the same thing.”

I disagree, we are all human, and what these men were allegedly part of was just incredible, even by your standards, surely. It was the greatest achievement by mankind to date, and I and the rest of the world’s population in possession of their own faculties, would be buzzing our frigging nuts off. I’d turn up to that press conference in t-shirt and jeans, I’m a superstar after all. I’d be lying back on my chair with my hands clasped behind my head and my feet on the table with a joint hanging from my mouth, it was the sixties after all. My smug grin would be so wide, I’d get into the Guinness book of records. But you would be slouched there, looking down at the table, nervously fiddling with your pen, hoping no one would realise you were repeating the words you were hearing through your earpiece, As you knew nothing of what you did, because you never done it.

Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins had trained literally for years to do what they did on Apollo 11. Then, in the matter of a fortnight the mission was over (and in a matter of two hours the moonwalk was over). And that was it. No more space travel for any of them. Is it any surprise they were on a downer after the biggest high of their lives?

I can provide a comparison (on a different scale, but similar despite that) from my own life. I used to learn ballroom dancing at a studio which ran two balls a year. While the balls were mostly a chance for students to dress up and have fun doing what we'd paid to learn, we could also pay for extra lessons to learn a choreographed routine to perform at the ball. I did that, and spent a couple of months before the ball taking those extra lessons to learn a routine, as well as searching out suitable music for the dance I had in mind. I also searched out a costume appropriate to the routine. Lessons go by and you concentrate hard to learn the routine, getting more nervous as the ball approaches and you're not sure if you've learned it properly. Then, finally, it's the ball. You walk out onto the dance floor, perform your routine, and in two minutes it's over. The rest of the ball is a buzz from the adrenaline (and a bit of alcohol, and dancing with some lovely young women in beautiful ball gowns). But the next morning was such a downer that I remember thinking that if someone had told me I'd never be able to dance again I would have shrugged and accepted it. (The people who ran the dance studio were clever - they opened the studio that next morning, put on some biccies and strong coffee, and encouraged people to sign up for another routine.)

So I can completely understand why people who've just performed a most amazing thing can look so empty during the media circus.

Yup.

You should see me opening night. Every single show I designed. Months of the best my imagination could come up with, hundreds of hours of work (far too many of them packed into the last hectic weeks.) Opening night gala crowd, best clothes, congratulations from everyone but especially the people who shared that crunch with you. And all I want to do is go home, drink two beers and wrap the blankets over my head.

[Northern Lurker]

I can relate to "after achievement downer". I used to play Live Action Role Playing games and around here we even had term for it; post game angst. The emptiness and anxiety after hectic period of learning your character, practising mannerisms and getting your costume and props ready. Then the sheer terror of getting quickly knowing who is who and getting into your character and then the rush of the game, acting as someone else. Afterwards you have nice memories and few pics and mementos but otherwise it's all gone. Nothing to prepare and wait for anymore. Just string of mundane average days ahead (until the next game).

Lurky

[gillianren]

In another "humans are different" moment, I don't have that reaction.  When I was in eighth grade, my city's community youth orchestra played Carnegie Hall, easily the most astounding moment of my life.  (I mean, I guess the births of my children . . . .)  My reaction to finishing the thing that I'd spent an entire school year building toward was elation that I hadn't embarrassed myself too badly.  Partially because being in an orchestra means no one can hear most of your individual flubs.

[onebigmonkey]

Just in case cambo thinks I'm being overly dismissive of his claim and that I'm just making stuff up, here are a few choice quotes from meteorological journals of the day which, he may be surprised to know, I have actually spent many many hours poring through to provide exactly the kind of support for my conclusions that he seems to doubt.

Here's a nice one from this 1971 article

https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0477%281971%29052%3C0330%3AOTFOTA%3E2.0.CO%3B2

This commemorative year has also seen the first experimental practical application of the synchronous meteorological satellite. At our Hurricane Center in Miami and at our Severe Storms Center in Kansas City, experimental operational use is being made of the continuous view of the weather obtained from geostationary orbit from NASA Satellites ATS-1 and ATS-3. The remarkable implications of being able to have a view of the continuously changing cloud patterns at a weather forecast center points toward new benefits from our science and service.

Does that sound like a weather service that has figured out exactly how satellite imagery can be used to predict the form of cloud formations? Or one that hopes to use it for such a thing some time in the future?

Or how about this from the 1969 Eastern Pacific Hurricane report

ftp://ftp.library.noaa.gov/docs.lib/htdocs/rescue/mwr/098/mwr-098-04-0280.pdf

"Lack of observational data during the night made the relocation of storms necessary twice during the life of Ava and once each in Bernice, Heather, and Irah."

Wait - they lost Hurricane Bernice? They didn't even know exactly where it was at one point but they still managed to work out what it would look like in time to make up a view of Earth for TV?

The January 1970 Mariner's Weather Log has this:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b3876046

"The lack of late day and night satellite pictures made it possible to lose storms overnight."

That's right, they could lose storms overnight because of the lack of satellite data.

In all the contemporary meteorological literature satellite imagery is used to confirm ground observations, not predict it. Bernice's actual storm track was confirmed by analysis after the storm, not during it.

Even if it were possible to produce an accurate prediction of how a hurricane behaves in terms of its track and configuration at a specific moment in time, cambo still needs to come up with a sensible, technologically feasible explanation as to how the image was used to produce a live colour TV broadcast made before the images were actually collected. So far his best effort seems to be "They guessed right".

[cambo]

Just making sure I’m using the insert image button correctly.

[cambo]

Second try.

[Mag40]

Second try.

Obvious troll. You've had numerous posts explaining why Kubrick didn't have anything to do with the manned lunar landings. The whole Kubrick thing was an online joke that the conspiracy community blindly believed. It had a section about shooting on location, ie  the moon!

[gillianren]

What Kubrick movies have you seen, Cambo?

[onebigmonkey]

The work involved in just one part of 2001:



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