Faking the moon landings

[bknight]

One of the more priceless bits of information concerning the A11 mission is the Jodrell Bank tracking of the mission as it landed.

One source of many

http://www.jodrellbank.net/20-july-1969-lovell-telescope-tracked-eagle-lander-onto-surface-moon/

[smartcooky]

One of the more priceless bits of information concerning the A11 mission is the Jodrell Bank tracking of the mission as it landed.

One source of many

http://www.jodrellbank.net/20-july-1969-lovell-telescope-tracked-eagle-lander-onto-surface-moon/

I notice the audio player doesn't work on that site (well at least it doesn't for me), but no matter.

Here it is for anyone who wants to download it and listen

https://www.dropbox.com/s/chwtsiyzm544w6u/Luna15-Apollo11.mp3?dl=1

[Luke Pemberton]

Here it is for anyone who wants to download it and listen

On the role of Jodrell bank, it was discussed that Doppler shift is evidence of Apollo's veracity. ka9q explained that it would be theoretically possible to fake the Doppler shift, but not possible to fool the operators at the DSN ( if I recall). I cannot find his post. Does anyone remember exactly what he said on this point? I may have this completely incorrect.

[bknight]

Here it is for anyone who wants to download it and listen

On the role of Jodrell bank, it was discussed that Doppler shift is evidence of Apollo's veracity. ka9q explained that it would be theoretically possible to fake the Doppler shift, but not possible to fool the operators at the DSN ( if I recall). I cannot find his post. Does anyone remember exactly what he said on this point? I may have this completely incorrect.

That sounds like one of the Blunder's claims, along with as I recall, The Russians could not tune their DSN to Apollo's frequency.  In his mind the Russians could track nor listen in .  But I do remember a video of Leonov discussing how they were listening in on the landing live.   So much for the Grandson's ability to research facts.

[molesworth]

On the role of Jodrell bank, it was discussed that Doppler shift is evidence of Apollo's veracity. ka9q explained that it would be theoretically possible to fake the Doppler shift, but not possible to fool the operators at the DSN ( if I recall). I cannot find his post. Does anyone remember exactly what he said on this point? I may have this completely incorrect.

As you add in more and more, and yet more pieces of evidence to collection of knowledge, it gets to the stage where there would have to have been a vast army of people working on it, and a hidden budget waaay more than the Apollo programme actually cost, to do all of it.  And you'd have to keep it all covered up for a very long time.

As often mentioned, it would be cheaper and easier to actually send people to the Moon... 

[gillianren]

And as I've said, it is literally not possible, even with today's technology, to fake the footage.  Tim thinks I believe that because I don't know enough about movies (my fifth column on the movie site I write for debuts today), but I could tell you in exacting detail what's wrong with, for example, the segment in Apollo 13 where Jim Lovell daydreams about walking on the Moon.

[Luke Pemberton]

...but I could tell you in exacting detail what's wrong with, for example, the segment in Apollo 13 where Jim Lovell daydreams about walking on the Moon.

Oooo... please do. I've heard you and others talk about 2001: A Space Odyssey, and how that film provides evidence for the difficulty of filming Apollo on Earth. It would be interesting to hear your detailing of such a small segment from a film, let alone large portions from films such as 2001.

[nomuse]

Apollo 13 -- and From the Earth to the Moon -- are instructional in how they actually approached filming. It is in almost every detail entirely different from how the hoaxies describe it being done.

(Indirectly; the hoaxies can't be tasked to provide an actual narrative, but you can reconstruct the slapdash affair they appear to be imagining from the various "telling details" they believe they have discovered.)

[Jason Thompson]

And as I've said, it is literally not possible, even with today's technology, to fake the footage.  Tim thinks I believe that because I don't know enough about movies (my fifth column on the movie site I write for debuts today), but I could tell you in exacting detail what's wrong with, for example, the segment in Apollo 13 where Jim Lovell daydreams about walking on the Moon.

I would love to hear that. I know that the billowing dust clouds are a problem but I'm sure there are others.

[jfb]

And as I've said, it is literally not possible, even with today's technology, to fake the footage.  Tim thinks I believe that because I don't know enough about movies (my fifth column on the movie site I write for debuts today), but I could tell you in exacting detail what's wrong with, for example, the segment in Apollo 13 where Jim Lovell daydreams about walking on the Moon.

I would love to hear that. I know that the billowing dust clouds are a problem but I'm sure there are others.

There are issues with how the suits move around.  Mythbusters did a segment where they showed that both overcranking and wire rigs resulted in movement of suit elements (helmet, hoses, camera harness, lanyards, flaps, etc.) that didn't match up with Apollo footage.  The only thing that resulted in matching movement?  Using a Vomit Comet to simulate 1/6 Earth gravity. 

In the "That's All There Is" episode of FTETTM, there's a shot of Dave Foley as Al Bean futzing with the TV camera with the "sun" directly behind him, and you see all kinds of dust floating around.   That's the clearest example, but there are others where you see dust floating in the air.  And, of course, every shot of a LM landing had huge billowing dust clouds. 

[gillianren]

Give me time to do some research (as in, rewatch From the Earth to the Moon and Apollo 13), and I'll do a column about it for the film site I write for.  But the short version is, yeah, dust and movement.  I suppose you could CGI the dust, though it's awfully expensive and time consuming for something only a handful of people care about.

[Abaddon]

Here it is for anyone who wants to download it and listen

On the role of Jodrell bank, it was discussed that Doppler shift is evidence of Apollo's veracity. ka9q explained that it would be theoretically possible to fake the Doppler shift, but not possible to fool the operators at the DSN ( if I recall). I cannot find his post. Does anyone remember exactly what he said on this point? I may have this completely incorrect.

Vaguely rings a bell. Did you search the archive?

[molesworth]

Give me time to do some research (as in, rewatch From the Earth to the Moon and Apollo 13), and I'll do a column about it for the film site I write for.  But the short version is, yeah, dust and movement.

Thanks! If you do, it would make interesting reading.

I suppose you could CGI the dust, though it's awfully expensive and time consuming for something only a handful of people care about.

By the time "From the Earth to the Moon" was made, CGI technology was just about capable of effects like that, although as you say, they would be very expensive and time consuming.  There was nothing even vaguely up to the job at the time of Apollo.

I think I mentioned, either here or on CQ, that I spent many years working on graphics system software, and if anything remotely capable of those effects had been available in the 1960's, it wouldn't have stayed a secret for long, since the movie industry would have leapt on it (much as they did in the 1990's).

People who believe that the Apollo films, videos and photographs were faked seem to have done no research into what tools were available at the time, and apparently think Photoshop was developed in the 19th Century, probably running on Babbage's Analytical Engine... 

[Abaddon]

Here it is for anyone who wants to download it and listen

On the role of Jodrell bank, it was discussed that Doppler shift is evidence of Apollo's veracity. ka9q explained that it would be theoretically possible to fake the Doppler shift, but not possible to fool the operators at the DSN ( if I recall). I cannot find his post. Does anyone remember exactly what he said on this point? I may have this completely incorrect.

This the one?

http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=998.msg34356#msg34356

[bknight]

Here it is for anyone who wants to download it and listen

On the role of Jodrell bank, it was discussed that Doppler shift is evidence of Apollo's veracity. ka9q explained that it would be theoretically possible to fake the Doppler shift, but not possible to fool the operators at the DSN ( if I recall). I cannot find his post. Does anyone remember exactly what he said on this point? I may have this completely incorrect.

This the one?

http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=998.msg34356#msg34356

And in that thread was the video of Leonov discussing listening in on the landing.