NASA and Freemasonry

[Jason Thompson]

The mentioned clubs have freemasonic connections. I did not see a club with such a wide influence in finances , trade,politics, police and all other than freemasonry.

And most major religions.

Please try to understand the difference between important people in various fields being members of a club and that club actually having control over those fields.

There is no conclusive proof, but there are tell_tale details of heir control.

And what are those details? Come on, Lionking, you know how this forum works, you've been on it long enough.

Being in different parties and having a brotherhood oath can confirm doubts not decrease them.

Of course. See my earlier comment and thanks for giving the exact predicted response. Co-operation is proof of influence, conflict is proof of staged events to hide the influence....

[Echnaton]

I'll bet he's not heard of the Church of England either!

Aren't they the group lead by shapeshifting reptilians?

Maybe not but one can be Anglican and a Mason at the same time, so LionKing could plausibly conflate the two into her woo fest. 

In fact they are tied together as so far as Masonry is of British origin.  With the oldest lodge being in Edinburgh, according to Wikipedia. 

[Echnaton]

Co-operation is proof of influence, conflict is proof of staged events to hide the influence....

Classic woo!

[LionKing]

https://exploringrealhistory.blogspot.com/2017/07/part-3-operation-gladiothe-unholy.html?m=1

[gillianren]

Look, LionKing, I have studied US history at length.  I'm not going to take the word of some random blogger over primary sources about the anti-Masonic movement in the US and its tendency to make stuff up that is still reported as truth, nearly two centuries later.  Most of the stuff you're presenting is based on hoaxes that have been known as hoaxes for that long.  Much of the rest of it is drawing inferences that could be used just as easily to prove that the Girl Scouts are a sinister organization.  Anti-Masonic prejudice in the US dates to the era when Americans were first establishing a national identity.  Masonry, Catholicism, and immigration were all seen, for varying reasons, as damaging to that identity.  So lies were made up about all three.  It doesn't impress anyone with your research skills when you're still falling for them.  You don't even have the excuse of being American.

[LionKing]

these are chapters of a book, not a mere blogger. the author of the book is an American author https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_L._Williams_(author)

[Jason Thompson]

these are chapters of a book, not a mere blogger. the author of the book is an American author https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_L._Williams_(author)

Yes, that was pretty much the point gillianren was making, wasn't it? Just because it is a book written by an American doesn't make it true. Freemasonry originated in England, not the US. It wasn't liked in the US so people promoted hoaxes and other anti-masonic literature.

Furthermore, as the article you linked to makes abundantly clear, Williams is a) Catholic and therefore cannot be a mason, and indeed is part of an explicitly anti-masonic organisation, and b) a rampant conspiracy theorist. He does not in any way qualify as an impartial and recognised authority on masonic activity. Quite the reverse, in fact.

[LionKing]

Ah ok i did not understand her comment about being not American..

being a catholic he has interests against them, doesn't mean he is wrong. He also wrote against the Vatican although he is Catholic. the italian freemasonry is well-known for scandals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due#Banco_Ambrosiano_scandal

[Jason Thompson]

Ah ok i did not understand her comment about being not American..

Fair enough, misunderstandings happen.

being a catholic he has interests against them, doesn't mean he is wrong.

Doesn't exactly make him a reliable author either. It certainly doesn't make him a good source to bolster your arguments with.

He also wrote against the Vatican although he is Catholic.

He seems to have quite a few targets. However, the question is not what he writes against but what actual evidence there is to support his claims.

the italian freemasonry is well-known for scandals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due#Banco_Ambrosiano_scandal

Lionking, do you actually read the articles you cite? This is not 'Italian freemasonry', it is an organisation that came out of a single masonic lodge that had its charter withdrawn in 1976, a good few years before the Banco Ambrosiano affair in 1982.

[LionKing]

"In 1970, during the failed Golpe Borghese, he was delegated the role of arresting the Italian President, Giuseppe Saragat.[5] As Master of the Propaganda Due (P2) lodge, Gelli had ties with very high level personalities in Italy and abroad, in particular in Argentina, where he was a fugitive for many years."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licio_Gelli


the bank collapsed later, but he was involved in illegal acts before that, and he was the head of the masonic lodge back then.
"Gelli publicly declared on repeated occasions that he was a close friend of Perón, although no confirmation ever came from South America. Gelli affirmed that he introduced Peron to Masonry and that this friendship was of real importance for Italy. He stated: "Peron was a Mason, I initiated him in Madrid in Puerta de Hierro, in June 1973.""

this was all before the charter was withdrawn

it demonstrates how when one is in masonry and has connections he can influence decisions of important people , through blackmailing sometimes. Having judges by their sides is as well dangerous. whatever control over money and policies they want they can have.

[Jason Thompson]

this was all before the charter was withdrawn

OK. Do you think it might be possible that these things were why the charter was withdrawn?

it demonstrates how when one is in masonry and has connections he can influence decisions of important people

No, it illustrates how one person with the ear of important people can influence things, regardless of what organisation he happens to belong to.

You are, still, confusing individual masons having important connections and power with the entire organisation being in some global conspiracy to hold power. Please tell me you can actually see the difference between those two things.

[LionKing]

they can't but withdraw it when it is that much uncovered. it would be too embarrassing.

I see the difference. You can't expect to have this written in front of public eyes that they want to control power. However, what they act reveals they want and are controlling. When presidents and important people come to them to be presidents and important people, and with all what is happening in the world of wars to control fuel oil which means control of money also, and their politicians involved, even reaching scientific institutes as NASA, it is hard for me to imagine that their goals are clean. Let us end it here and each one has the freedom to maintain his position on this.

[Jason Thompson]

they can't but withdraw it when it is that much uncovered. it would be too embarrassing.

Standard and entirely expected response. You are disappointingly predictable at times. They withdraw the charter not because they don't wish to be associated with such activity but because they are hiding that they are associated with it?  As usual every action is evidence of something fishy. There's nothing objective in your analysis at all. You've decided the organisation is suspect and nothing anyone says will change your mind.

I see the difference.

I wish I could beieve that.

You can't expect to have this written in front of public eyes that they want to control power.

And yet according to all the crap you've been spouting it might as well be.

it is hard for me to imagine that their goals are clean.

Of course, because you've decided they are not. But you still maintain the entire organisation is somehow controlling the entire world, a feat of centuries of worldwide co-operation that no-one has ever shown the slightest bit of aptitude for.

Let us end it here and each one has the freedom to maintain his position on this.

And as usual you simply abandon the thread without the slightest concession that you just might be wrong about any of your points. Why do you make such a habit of this? You pull out a few sources that agree with your predetermined position and start a thread on here where it becomes clear very early on you have no intention of actually discussing it, only in promoting your thoughts on it. Honestly, what do you gain from being here at all?

[nomuse]

Yup.

I've noticed a lot of important people wear ties.

Therefore ties run the world.

[smartcooky]

Next thing that LionKing will be trying to tell us is that members of the KGC were also Freemasons...