Bill Kaysing & Ralph Rene books

[Spanky]

My wife bought me a nice thoughtful birthday gift today, I mean what do you get the guy you have been married to for 25 years. A tie lol, so anyways what she got me was a copy of each, the Ralph Rene one is an early edition and is even autographed. I was told it was authentic and I would like to believe it, I doubt there are to many forged ones out there unlike sports memorabilia. Anyways this is my introductory thread post or whatever you want to call it and just wanted to say Hi to everyone.

I will try and figure out how to post a pic of them later

Thanks Dean AKA Spanky

[Zakalwe]

Welcome onboard.

Do you actually believe Ralph Rene's or Bill Kaysing's guff?

[Spanky]

I don't buy everything they say hook line and sinker, but on they other hand I can't discount all what they have to say because I find they do have some valid points. Just like some of they other guys out there if you weed through there stuff they also have some valid points. I just like having these books either for a great conversation piece or for posterity, whether they are right or wrong They were the first to step forward and claim they unthinkable, which in some small part led to the creation of this very website and more. Some things in life strike funny you more than others and in my case I am an avid golfer, and what catches my attention is the famous golf shot. You cannot "Hook" or "Slice" a golf ball in a vacuum it is they air that causes that, it is referred to as they "Magnus Effect"  there are plenty of youtube videos on the subject if you are so inclined.

Spanky

PS: Both these books were bought at a church fundraiser they had all the usual stuff IE: quilts, pies, Jams, ect the books were so out of place in that setting that I took it for a sign from GOD  LOL, I asked who donated them and they did not know I would have loved to have a conversation with that parishioner.

[Zakalwe]

they do have some valid points.

Just like some of they other guys out there if you weed through there stuff they also have some valid points.

Nope and nope.
99 times out of a hundred their "valid points" are based on nothing more than ignorance. The one time that it isn't it's because they are trying to flog a book/seminar/TV show.

[Kiwi]

...the Ralph Rene one is an early edition and is even autographed. I was told it was authentic and I would like to believe it...

Welcome to ApolloHoax, Spanky. It's a good place to learn about Mercury, Gemini, Apollo and later space stuff.

I briefly corresponded with Rene back in 1995-96 when neither of us were on the internet and he was publicly known as only Rene'.

Nexus magazine had printed some excerpts from his book and because I was previously a professional photographer and had followed the space race since seeing Sputnik 1 in 1957, I was able to debunk some of his claims about photographs, but Nexus didn't print them.

Our exchange was friendly and because I sent him photos to illustrate some of my points, he kindly sent me a free copy of his book by airmail which, to New Zealand, was not cheap.

Here are some details from that original copy for you to compare.

Title page:

NASA MOONED AMERICA!
By Rene'
Edited by Stu Lucas
Drawings by Chris Wolfer
Copyright © 1994
All Rights Reserved
No part of this book may be reproduced [SNIP] ...and crediting the source.
Copyright © by Rene' 1992
ISBN Pending
Published by:
Rene'
31 Burgess Pl.
Passaic NJ 07055

Capitalisation and punctuation are the same. All lines are spaced so they fill the page and all but the last four lines are centered.

Inside the front cover is his signature, Rene', in black felt tip marker and sloping upward at about 45 degrees.

The front cover has the black-and-white photo AS12-49-7278 and his comments about it are on page 5. I don't think any of them were accurate, but don't have time right now to check them minutely.

Pages 6 to 10 are on glossy paper and have large but cropped-to-rectangular, high-quality colour reproductions of, in order, photos AS16-107-17446, AS16-113-18339, and AS14-66-9277.

To his credit, Rene was one early hoax-promoter who used the proper numbers for the photos. Nowadays we just collect them free on the internet.

The covers are thin white card and the book measures 280 x 217 x 12 mm. It is well-bound with four staples very close to the spine and finished with black tape.

I can probably dig out my comments and post them here if you're interested. Fellow-member JayUtah tackled some of Rene's claims here:
http://www.clavius.org/bibmilne.html

Edited to fix typos and add Clavius link.

[Spanky]

That is exactly what I have too a TEE, I will try and post a pic of it later, for lack of a better term it is more in the format of a manuscript.

Spanky

[Spanky]

Working on pics

[Spanky]

I am also looking for Bill Coopers book for my collection,  if anyone has seen a a copy and could pass that along I would be eternally grateful. the book is entitled "Behold a Pale Horse"

Thanks Spanky

PS: Not to be fussy but It has to be an older copy, I don't like the fact that amazon and the like are republishing some authors works and getting away with it.

[Allan F]

So, why don't you tell us which "Valid points" you found in those books? I'm sure, the audience here will tell you exactly WHY those phamphlets are wrong in every way.

[Spanky]

It is not in the book but my golf shot that I pointed out in my second post, is a valid point if you care to elaborate.

Dean

[Jason Thompson]

It is not in the book but my golf shot that I pointed out in my second post, is a valid point if you care to elaborate.

Dean

Welcome to Apollohoax. I hope you enjoy it here.

Now, in what sense is yur golf shot point valid? In that it is impossible to 'slice' a golf ball in a vacuum? Well that may well be true. However, to use it as a piece of evidence for a hoax is stretching a point hugely. OK, so the capcom said Shepard's shot looked like a slice. So what? It was a bit of good-natured banter on a little piece of fun on the mission. It wasn't a professional golfing analysis of the shot. It is also impossible to hit the ball 'miles and miles and miles,' even in the reduced lunar gravity, but again, no-one was literally claiming it went that far.

There is way too much solid evidence of Apollo being real for a single over-lteral interpretation of a throaway comment on one mission to be anything resembling evidence of foul play.

[Spanky]

OK here is something with a little more "Meat" to it, I worked in they HVAC industry. And from what they have said the temp on the moon is 250 deg during the day, and drops to minus 250 Deg at night. And from my experience even to this day there is no system available out there that could compensate for such an astronomical swing in temperature 500 Deg. Let alone one that is powered by a bank of car batteries the current draw would be to taxing, and to add to that even if they could and I highly doubt it with no way or source to recharge those batteries it is just not feasible. Then to add even more to this incredible feat of engineering to have a portable version that they can actually wear and prance around on the moon. If such a system was available after 50 years it would have made it's way into the market already, that is just the way things work.

Dean

[Allan F]

ANOTHER misconception. The theoretical maximum temperature IN THE SOIL on the LUNAR EQUATOR at lunar NOON can be up there. The soil was barely above freezing at the places the Apollo missions landed, because it was in the lunar MORNING - just a few earth days after sunrise, where the sun is still very low on the horizon. It takes significant time to heat the soil up, after being in the dark for two earth weeks.

Now, the Apollo missions stayed for a maximum of about 3 earth days on the surface. They didn't spend the entire lunar day or lunar night there. The experiments left on the surface was powered by a RTG, not a battery. The LRVs used batteries, but they died a few earth days after the astronauts left in the ascent stage.

Car batteries? You mean Lead-Acid batteries? None of those were used on the Apollo missions. They used Silver-Zinc batteries. Much more energy per weight and volume.

Also, the 250 degrees you claim, WHICH degrees are you on about? Centigrades or Farenheit?

So: No car batteries. No 250 degrees (which type of degrees?) temperature.

Before you throw another old, useless claim out, please look into HOW THE MISSIONS WERE PERFORMED. A lot of your "good ideas" will perish right there. None of what you have written so far is in any way evidence, new, relevant or even logical.

And the degrees you fail to name, are farenheit.

[Philthy]

It's worth pointing out that the lunar day is two weeks long, so that also means the lunar night is also two weeks long. The Apollo missions landed during the morning, so the surface did not have sufficient time to heat up to 250F.

Phil

[Allan F]

Are you talking about the batteries which powered the EVA suits? They were replaced by fresh batteries after each EVA. They had also fresh LiOH cannisters stored on the equipment pallet on the descent stage. Oxygen was replenished from the tank in the ascent stage - and cooling water too.

Those batteries were also Silver-Zinc batteries. Compact and powerful. You claim they didn't have enough power available. Then you should show us those calculations, including the power stored in the batteries, and how you calculated the power usage. If you just claim "They didn't have enough power" without EVIDENCE, you're just another parrot.