Author Topic: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched  (Read 38890 times)

Offline Mag40

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #285 on: January 09, 2025, 04:50:31 AM »
He's protesting about the injustice of it all on Facebook.

Boohoo.

What name does he post under?

Brian Knox on the The Apollo Moon Hoax (No Flat Earthers) group.
Just browsed his page - this is one of the things that convinces him! This is Apollo 8 and didn't even land on the Moon:


Edit: I really hope he has dropped this as part of his list. Maybe a simple logic bomb may do the trick?

NASA - supposedly faking the Earth. Instead of using an "Earth" according to this moronic video, uses a lightbulb?
Really?

The camera is exposed for the dimmed cabin, the Earth is over exposed on (IIRC) a vidicon tube video camera that blooms like crazy. Apollo 8 was tracked by directional radio dishes and the signal came from exactly where claimed.

Maybe he should check out your website and see the astonishing level of detail Apollo images has in correlation with modern verifiable positioning data for the Solar System.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2025, 05:17:19 AM by Mag40 »

Offline BertieSlack

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #286 on: January 09, 2025, 05:16:32 AM »
Brian Knox on the The Apollo Moon Hoax (No Flat Earthers) group.

Jarrah got me instantly banned from that group. Seems he's still sensitive about his obvious abuse of DMCA to try to get Astrobrant & others kicked off YT. I didn't even raise the topic in that group. He did (as soon as he saw my name).

Offline Mag40

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #287 on: January 09, 2025, 05:18:42 AM »
Brian Knox on the The Apollo Moon Hoax (No Flat Earthers) group.

Jarrah got me instantly banned from that group. Seems he's still sensitive about his obvious abuse of DMCA to try to get Astrobrant & others kicked off YT. I didn't even raise the topic in that group. He did (as soon as he saw my name).
The hypocrisy is very high here and I'm guessing you weren't acting like an arrogant arse either.

Offline BertieSlack

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #288 on: January 09, 2025, 06:05:01 AM »
The hypocrisy is very high here and I'm guessing you weren't acting like an arrogant arse either.

I made a comment in a thread about some aspect of the moon hoax theory, and Jarrah jumped in whining about "you were one of those horrid people who accused me 10 years ago of abusing the DMCA system" and I just replied "well, you did, and all the videos you had removed via DMCA claims were re-instated so that rather proves you WERE abusing the DMCA system, doesn't it?" and he had me blocked. I was a member of that group for about one day.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #289 on: January 09, 2025, 06:25:43 AM »
NASA - supposedly faking the Earth. Instead of using an "Earth" according to this moronic video, uses a lightbulb?
Really?

The camera is exposed for the dimmed cabin, the Earth is over exposed on (IIRC) a vidicon tube video camera that blooms like crazy. Apollo 8 was tracked by directional radio dishes and the signal came from exactly where claimed.

Who knows, maybe he might actually read Dwight's book and learn something about the TV system that might help....

I laughed so hard when I read his post here asking if Dwight had 'any links' to support what he was saying about the TV on Apollo!  ;D
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Mag40

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #290 on: January 09, 2025, 06:30:27 AM »
NASA - supposedly faking the Earth. Instead of using an "Earth" according to this moronic video, uses a lightbulb?
Really?

The camera is exposed for the dimmed cabin, the Earth is over exposed on (IIRC) a vidicon tube video camera that blooms like crazy. Apollo 8 was tracked by directional radio dishes and the signal came from exactly where claimed.

Who knows, maybe he might actually read Dwight's book and learn something about the TV system that might help....

I laughed so hard when I read his post here asking if Dwight had 'any links' to support what he was saying about the TV on Apollo!  ;D
Sadly this is just about the root of the whole thing. It requires any/all experts to be wrong/delusional/paid shills in every institution in the world and on any relevant discipline.

Najak should just do one thing as far as I am concerned. I don't care about his misplaced arrogance, his Dunning-Kruger related failures or any of his conclusions. If he just stopped his distorted confirmation bias and got back to the actual science, it would go a long way to helping him.

If the first reaction is to pencil in hoax and come up with anything that may work - absent of evidence as awlays - then the whole process is skewed.

Online Luke Pemberton

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #291 on: January 09, 2025, 12:20:11 PM »
He's protesting about the injustice of it all on Facebook.

The injustice of being able to post 1000+ posts, waving away any argument with vagaries as more information and hints were offered. The injustice of being the chief arbitrater of the truth, while simultaneously dismissing well presented rebuttals. While all the time admitting that the objective of the hoax theory is to identify clues and present arguments that were set in stone until evidence could be provided to the contrary, and when that very evidence was put forward the goalposts were moved.

The reason for the ban is clear to see in the Banned Members section of the forum. LO is quite humbling in his assessment. The world is burning and fascism is on the rise. Why do people here need to spend hours wasting their time because someone on the internet doesn't believe humans landed on the moon.

Maybe when Hoax Theorists turn up in future, we set an exam; and if they refuse to take it they are blocked. That's it, show you have the credentials and prerequisite skills to be an engineer. If not, there's no point wasting time.

The fact he is ingratiating himself with our antipodean friend on FB probably explains the Jay fixation. Interestingly, they are both unable to grasp calculus.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2025, 12:46:48 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #292 on: January 09, 2025, 04:10:29 PM »
Maybe when Hoax Theorists turn up in future, we set an exam; and if they refuse to take it they are blocked. That's it, show you have the credentials and prerequisite skills to be an engineer. If not, there's no point wasting time.

I've thought about some kind of knowledge test upon registration that must be completed before permission to post is granted. We still see hoax believers who think there was only one moon landing, but somehow still think they know more than everyone else. It's something I might attempt at some point when I have time.

I do honestly wish there were more ways for me to ensure people like Najak defended their claims besides just threatening to use the ban hammer, but the forum's moderation tools are limited. If all he is going to dismiss every explanation as "not viable" with zero rebuttal there isn't much I can do other than ban him for wasting our time.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline bknight

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #293 on: January 09, 2025, 04:16:40 PM »
Maybe when Hoax Theorists turn up in future, we set an exam; and if they refuse to take it they are blocked. That's it, show you have the credentials and prerequisite skills to be an engineer. If not, there's no point wasting time.

I've thought about some kind of knowledge test upon registration that must be completed before permission to post is granted. We still see hoax believers who think there was only one moon landing, but somehow still think they know more than everyone else. It's something I might attempt at some point when I have time.

I do honestly wish there were more ways for me to ensure people like Najak defended their claims besides just threatening to use the ban hammer, but the forum's moderation tools are limited. If all he is going to dismiss every explanation as "not viable" with zero rebuttal there isn't much I can do other than ban him for wasting our time.
Either that or a stipulation that they must answer direct questions rather like CQ.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #294 on: January 09, 2025, 04:18:50 PM »
I've thought about some kind of knowledge test upon registration that must be completed before permission to post is granted.

The problem I see with that is that it's a barrier for those who genuinely want to know. I realise they're not common but there have been some over the years. It's not really the knowledge that's the problem but the willingness to learn. I didn't know much about Apollo when I first came here and I'm not an engineer, nor do I have any relevant qualifications in space flight or applications. I really did come to learn from people who knew more about the subject so I could debunk the conspiracy claims. A lot of what I have learned has been from here, either directly imparted or pointing me towards the right materials.

It's your forum and you must do as you think best to keep it a good place to be, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of an entry knowledge test I probably would have failed back when I started.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #295 on: January 09, 2025, 04:35:34 PM »
The problem I see with that is that it's a barrier for those who genuinely want to know.

I'm not thinking of anything too difficult, just the basics. And they wouldn't even need to pass the test in order to post, it would just be to gauge their knowledge level.

It might not happen anyway. It would require me to research how to tie my code into the forum's code, and I haven't got time for that. I am probably going to work on updating the forum's template so that it's up to modern standards, though. The current theme was made in 2012, I think... and it's not mobile friendly at all. Plus my eyesight isn't as good as it was back then, so I'm probably going to make the default font size bigger. ;)

If you guys have anything you'd like to see changed I welcome your input. I'm keeping the orange, though! ;)
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Online Luke Pemberton

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #296 on: January 09, 2025, 06:26:06 PM »
I was being a little tongue in cheek about the test. I thought about another way to discredit them or even silence their beliefs, but  I won't float that as I'd appear bonkers.

It just feels that the hoax theory started with some very basic claims that have all been debunked: shadows, stars, fluttering flags, film speed, rocks, radiation, Buzz in the crater, no photos of Armstrong, computer power, Aldrin's boot print and so forth.

I was having a discussion many years ago and someone suggested that Bill Kaysing's book was intended to be jocular; if I recall he wrote under a pseudonym - Randy Read. Ralph Rene took it a little further with radiation and C-rocks. One only has to see the Ralph Rene interviews to understand you could not take him seriously. The whole theory has morphed into an inconsistent mish mash of hundreds of claims that have no merit. That's not a theory.

Our recently departed friend described the theory as unpicking clues or magic, and finding alternative explanations until they could be proved wrong by viable alternatives. This is goal post moving.

Thanks to Fox, the theory has long been out of control in terms of its claims and the people that peddle it, there's often a cash cow element attached to their motives.  The theory even incorporates rebuttals as new evidence. Film speed change is one such example. Our friend explained that the figure could range from 40% to about 60% depending on the situation. The original claim was 50%. The 60% figure was derived because of a dumb mistake and doubling down on that mistake. The 40% because some have twigged the (1.67/9.81)1/2 ratio has merit. Once the 50% figure was debunked, that should have been the end - period. There is no more debate. The theory has no merit.

Don't debate new claims above those that were initially proposed, simply point them to the original claims and discuss these. Nothing else. Here's the theory Bill Kaysing/Ralph Rene set out, do you agree these are the constraints of the theory and the starting point? If not, there is no further discussion.

I do agree with Jason, there are those that do join to understand, so having a test is a poor idea. I arrived here because I had tried my hand at YT. Being here has been a learning experience. So sometimes allowing multiple threads and having the patience of those venerated by the Catholic church provides those learning opportunities.

Would limiting new users to the number of responses they can make per day or restrict them to a pre-prepared thread based on the original claims be a way forward?

Larger font would be better, as my eyesight is getting poorer too.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2025, 06:59:11 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #297 on: January 09, 2025, 07:27:35 PM »
I agree that a proficiency test is not the answer. First, not every question is going to come down to some rote bit of science we can preemptively test, even for the repetitious claims. Second, people should be given credit for any legitimate way they might be able to demonstrate intelligence and insight irrespective of a prefatory test. And on the flip side, the rhetorical disadvantage of requiring an entrance exam is obvious. People will simply claim that we're trying to intimidate claimants who have potentially good claims and potentially interesting questions.

But I do think it's valid to expect claimants to be aware of past discussion on points they raise. They don't get to demand a de novo consideration just because a particular claim is novel to them. It seems fair to require them to have done some homework in our archived posts, at our various web sites, and elsewhere. And having done that, it's fair to require them to have some well articulated objection to the past discussion (not just, "I don't accept that"), or some question that meaningfully transcends what's already been done. It's not like we'd be asking people to pay us money or risk anything other than mild embarrassment. The concept of due diligence is not that hard to grasp or justify.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #298 on: January 09, 2025, 07:41:00 PM »
Would limiting new users to the number of responses they can make per day or restrict them to a pre-prepared thread based on the original claims be a way forward?

The forum doesn't have that capability, unfortunately. That's something I had looked into for Najak before imposing the "no new topics" restriction.

Quote
Larger font would be better, as my eyesight is getting poorer too.

👍
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Online Luke Pemberton

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Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Reply #299 on: January 09, 2025, 07:47:44 PM »
I agree that a proficiency test is not the answer. First, not every question is going to come down to some rote bit of science we can preemptively test, even for the repetitious claims.

Despite my tongue in cheek remark, I understand a test is not the answer. Who here sets the questions and by what criteria do they set the benchmark for proficiency. We complain posters such as najak take the position as arbitrators of acceptable proof, we would place ourselves upon the same pedestal with a test and deter those who have potentially good claims and potentially interesting questions. This leads to hypocrisy on our part.

If the answers are not easily googled we portray ourselves as an exclusive club and an echo chamber; and as you recognise people will simply claim that we're trying to intimidate claimants who have potentially good claims and potentially interesting questions.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2025, 08:40:27 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch