Author Topic: Najak's Posts  (Read 1481 times)

Offline smartcooky

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Najak's Posts
« on: December 02, 2024, 04:50:12 AM »
There seems to be a patterm emegering with najak's posts here

1. He post something he thinks a new, thinks that no-one else has thought of, and thinks is a slam dunk argument for a hoax.

2. Turns out that its not new, but it is old, sometimes very old, and has been repeatedly debunked for the past 40+ years.

3. He gets handed his arse and can't convince anyone of anything.

4. Abandons the argument, and goes on to the next shuny object, which is invariably another lame, stale, repeatedly debunked claim

- Dish falls with gravity (debunked)
- Sand falls too fast (debunked)
- Flag moves without being touched (debunked)
- Saturn V was not capable of launching a 110,000 lb payload (debunked)
- LM was not capable of landing humans on the surface (debunked)


Next few things I expect will be shadows, light sources, no stars and the rest of the usual bollocks we get from hoaxtards!
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline najak

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2024, 05:34:30 AM »
Next few things I expect will be shadows, light sources, no stars and the rest of the usual bollocks we get from hoaxtards!
Wishful thinking.  The presentations I've made have been mostly unique in approach, and depth that I go to make the proof.

I believe a number of these presentations stand unrefuted, so far.

1. Lunar Launches Too Fast -- unrefuted..   Awaiting a magic response from JayUtah
2. Flag being pushed TOWARDS the LM - unrefuted, but am still debating it with OneBigMonkey.
3. Sand Falls to Fast - I believe the argument I'm making is sound with physics.
4. Apollo 12's Dish bouncing in a way that can only be explained by a "pendulum in gravity", along with 4 other sub-points.


I get that Apollogists are like "Ministers of the Faith" - you have a LOT invested here.  And if I were to debate the authenticity/authority of the Bible with a Minister - I would never count on him deconverting.   Ministry is his life...  he's going to believe in the Bible no matter what you show him.

Likewise, I think the same thing may be happening here.

I haven't seen anyone hand me my ass here.   I've made some mistakes, which I admit, then I adjust and continue (as we should).

I have more to show, but first, need to wait for these few I've posted already to become officially "resolved" (which I'm guessing will be "agree to disagree", as people like you cast undeserved insults at me).

Offline ApolloEnthusiast

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2024, 08:56:06 AM »

I believe


This is representative of most of your "arguments". You say things like, "it seems...", "I would expect...", "this should...".

You're not actually making any arguments. You're stating a conclusion based on your inferences, suppositions, and ignorance, and expecting that if no one can demonstrate to your satisfaction that you're mistaken that your conclusion stands.

The fact is, however, you are not the gatekeeper of what is true, and nothing needs to be proven to your satisfaction. If you were intellectually honest you would see discrepancies in this minutiae you've found (or more accurately, had fed to you), assume you are mistaken and exert all of your efforts to understanding why. If you fail to find the reason or reasons, you might then seek help from others to help you see what you're missing. Not from the perspective of someone who believes that Apollo is a hoax, but from someone who is trying to understand why the facts of a situation don't match their expectations. And even then, if you and all of the people you get to help you, fail to find the cause of your misunderstanding, none of these minutiae can ever disprove the truth about the Apollo landings. The best they can do is serve as a catalyst to find actual evidence of a fraud.

The money spent on the machines to execute the moon landings is documented in transparent government budget lines. Any money spent on a hoax would, by necessity, not be documented. Where did that money come from? Who paid for it? How did they hide it from people whose jobs are to make sure money can't be misappropriated?

The rockets all launched. If not the moon, where did they go? Obviously the rockets worked, so if your claim is that they went to the moon and didn't land, what actual facts demonstrate the incapability of the LM from successfully landing? If they went to the moon with a lander that could land, then why did they elect not to?

If you believe they stayed in orbit, why was Apollo 13 observed in lunar transit by amateur astronomers?

Most importantly, if this was all staged, there is a location on Earth where it was filmed and many people who worked at that location to film it. Where was the studio, who worked on it, how did they keep all of this a secret, and why has no one revealed what they did?

You've made it quite clear that no evidence will be convincing to you. Anything from NASA is obviously biased, doctored, or otherwise faked, but anything that isn't from NASA is unofficial and without credibility. The burden is on you to prove your claims. You can't just state it's a hoax and then simply dismiss evidence to the contrary and claim victory. If you believe Apollo was faked then prove it. If you can't, then admit it, and humbly ask for help with the things you're having trouble understanding.

PS - any evidence of high intellect that you may or may not actually possess doesn't make you immune to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It is simply a situation in which the person is unaware of what they don't know, so it is possible that if you are very intelligent, your arrogance is blinding you to the giant gaps in your understanding. It is always more likely that an individual is mistaken is their conclusion is at odds with hundreds of thousands of experts and decades of recorded history. While it is possible the individual is correct (see Copernicus or Galileo), one should always assume they are wrong and work with that hypothesis to exhaustion. You have definitely failed to meet that standard. Please do better.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2024, 01:03:49 PM »
Wishful thinking.

Nope

The presentations I've made have been mostly unique in approach

Wrong. They are old claims that have been previously debunked

...and depth that I go to make the proof.

You have offered no proofs of anything so far. All you have done is offer your own perspectives and opinions.... "this" doesn't look right, "that" doesn't sound right etc. 

I believe

What you believe is irrelevant, what you can prove is all that matters.

...a number of these presentations stand unrefuted, so far.

1. Lunar Launches Too Fast -- unrefuted..   Awaiting a magic response from JayUtah

First claimed by Ralph Rene over 20 years ago, using the timing marks on VHS video tape. He was too stupid to understand what a poor method this was. There were no VHS tapes in 1969 so what he used to take his measurements had to have been at least second generation (more likely 4th or 5th generation) copies.

You have offered no proof other than your own speculation. Where are your calculations showing the mass, thrust, and specific impulse of the F1 and J2 engines? You need to provide these to show the difference between the launch profile that would be required to put the upper stage into orbit and subsequently to TLI, and the launch profile YOU are claiming for the Saturn V. You haven't shown any of those calculations, I doubt you are even capable of doing them. Well some of us are, but we're not going to to do your homework for you. YOU are making the claims here not us, it YOUR job to prove your claim. So far, you have failed, and failed spectacularly.   

2. Flag being pushed TOWARDS the LM - unrefuted, but am still debating it with OneBigMonkey.

First claimed by Bill Kaysing more years ago that I care to remember, and again, debunked multiple times by multiple people on multiple platforms over the course of multiple years. Again, where are your calculations. Where are your frame-by-frame photogrammetric measurements show show fast you claim the flag moved? Did you detect any vertical component of this claimed movement? If you did, would you even understand the imlications of such movement  Do you have any understanding that, even in a vacuum, things can move as a result of outside outside influences such as gravity and vibration?     

3. Sand Falls to Fast - I believe the argument I'm making is sound with physics.

4. Apollo 12's Dish bouncing in a way that can only be explained by a "pendulum in gravity", along with 4 other sub-points.

Previously claimed by the Blunder from Down Under, I don't know who first claimed this rubbish. You and physics are totally unacquainted. Where are your gravity, mass and acceleration calculations? I'm not seeing any of the necessary mathematical evidence you need to back up this claim. Your arguments pretty much amount to nothing more than what you believe.   

I get that Apollogists are like "Ministers of the Faith" - you have a LOT invested here.  And if I were to debate the authenticity/authority of the Bible with a Minister - I would never count on him deconverting.   Ministry is his life...  he's going to believe in the Bible no matter what you show him.

Likewise, I think the same thing may be happening here.

We are not apologists (because facts need no apology) and we have nothing invested (becaseu facts need no investment). We use maths and science to come to our conclusions. Not faith. For someone who claims others are faith-based, you say stuff like  "I believe", "I would expect...", "this should..." and "It seems" an awful lot.

I haven't seen anyone hand me my ass here.

Of course you haven't. You don't understand that you are doing a great job of handing yourself your own arse.... all claims and speculation, no substance.

I've made some mistakes, which I admit, then I adjust and continue (as we should).

I have more to show, but first, need to wait for these few I've posted already to become officially "resolved" (which I'm guessing will be "agree to disagree", as people like you cast undeserved insults at me).

Ahh yes... there's the next (predictable) conspiritard tactic, claiming that you have this secret stash of other claims, proofs and evidence that you haven't revealed yet. Who did you learn that from... Bart Sibrel?
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline najak

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2024, 05:32:11 PM »
You're not actually making any arguments. You're stating a conclusion based on your inferences, suppositions, and ignorance, and expecting that if no one can demonstrate to your satisfaction that you're mistaken that your conclusion stands.
I really enjoyed your response.  You seem to have a high IQ too. :)  Thank you for your responses here.  I'll address a few.

Quote
The money spent on the machines to execute the moon landings is documented in transparent government budget lines. Any money spent on a hoax would, by necessity, not be documented. Where did that money come from? Who paid for it? How did they hide it from people whose jobs are to make sure money can't be misappropriated?
With high profit NASA contracts, and all accounting done on paper, it would be immensely EASY to siphon the required money for NASAX under the guise of "something else" (maybe QA work). 

Quote
The rockets all launched. If not the moon, where did they go? Obviously the rockets worked, so if your claim is that they went to the moon and didn't land, what actual facts demonstrate the incapability of the LM from successfully landing? If they went to the moon with a lander that could land, then why did they elect not to?
The Landing maneuvers followed by Ascent to Rendezvous was at least 10x harder than all of the rest of their claims.   I believe it was "impossible with the tech at the time" - and have many reasons for believing this.   I plan to cover these in online articles "as we go".  But being a rookie, I'm only 9 weeks into this mess.  My disbelief in Apollo's Landing came from professional experience with 3D free-floating rigid body physics simulations... and the claims of Apollo in 1969 we impossible -- or at least "far more dangerous by a billion times that they'd never risk it -- and then luckily succeed 6x in a row without fatality".

Quote
If you believe they stayed in orbit, why was Apollo 13 observed in lunar transit by amateur astronomers?
Do you have a citation?  I'm only aware of them seeing "Fuel dumps" - stuff that happened in Earth orbit.

Quote
Most importantly, if this was all staged, there is a location on Earth where it was filmed and many people who worked at that location to film it. Where was the studio, who worked on it, how did they keep all of this a secret, and why has no one revealed what they did?
MLH theory puts it in Arizona/NM desert regions where military has large swaths of land and no-fly-zones.  Also Canon AF base NM, hangars also has evidence implicating it as the location for filming Apollo 11/12 sets.  Others may have ventured into the desert regions inside their high security regions.

Quote
You've made it quite clear that no evidence will be convincing to you.
Ditto?  I would LOVE to change sides and be proven wrong - and admit it, confess it, etc...  The world is in dire need of more people willing to "change sides" when presented with enough compelling evidence.

At this point, for me, it's like showing up to a magic show where the whole audience believes he "cut a woman in half" but do not want to deal with the sheer "impossibility" of it, and any evidence shown to them that indicates "something wasn't right during the presentation" they simply refute, similar to how Christians will always defend the Bible, no matter what - to the end -- and proudly so, while insulting anyone who presents evidence that undermines their faith.

Quote
PS - any evidence of high intellect that you may or may not actually possess doesn't make you immune to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It is simply a situation in which the person is unaware of what they don't know, so it is possible that if you are very intelligent, your arrogance is blinding you to the giant gaps in your understanding. It is always more likely that an individual is mistaken is their conclusion is at odds with hundreds of thousands of experts and decades of recorded history. While it is possible the individual is correct (see Copernicus or Galileo), one should always assume they are wrong and work with that hypothesis to exhaustion. You have definitely failed to meet that standard. Please do better.
This is why I'm HERE, instead of hanging out in MLH echo chambers.  I believe I'm fairly good at realizing "where I don't know enough" to say "I don't know enough to have a reliable/legitimate opinion".  For example, Politics -- most people think they "know what's best for the nation" -- I however, conclude - "this is too complex to REALLY know what is best"... and although I have opinions of what "seems best to me" - I always say "I really don't have a clue, as it's too complex/muddy and too many moving parts and concepts."

As for Apollo -- I'm sticking to VERY SIMPLE CONCEPTS... not within the realm of Dunning Kruger.   Newtonian Physics, for example.  Pendulum physics.   

In which of my claims do you think I've journeyed forth into the Dunning-Kruger effect? (where I'm making claims that are beyond my grasp of physics, etc)

And if a medical doctor shows up to the magic show, with enough knowledge to know "cutting a woman in half isn't possible" - is this Dunning Kruger?  Could he be wrong?  Sure -- but would want to see a LOT more evidence.  Is he required to "know how the magician pulled off the trick" for that doctor to remain firm in his beliefs?  Nope.

PS: Thank you for engaging.  I'd like it if you addressed some of these threads I've started to provide me with a viable/legitimate Apollogist explanation.   Give it your best shot, please.

Offline najak

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2024, 05:37:47 PM »
Ahh yes... there's the next (predictable) conspiritard tactic, claiming that you have this secret stash of other claims, proofs and evidence that you haven't revealed yet. Who did you learn that from... Bart Sibrel?
I've been (reasonably) commanded by @LunarOrbit to not post any more of these, until we resolve the current ones.   I do have many more... and will get to them as I am permitted to do so.  I believe @LunarOrbit's mandate is reasonable.   But as such, I'm aiming to "close some of these down" so that I can start the new ones.  Some have become circular... and so need to wind down.

In this context, the topics are splintered -- so I won't debate specifics here with you... because that would be too splintered and non-productive.

I invite you to offer your refutations in the other threads, where they are in scope.

Offline bknight

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2024, 07:53:06 PM »
Ahh yes... there's the next (predictable) conspiritard tactic, claiming that you have this secret stash of other claims, proofs and evidence that you haven't revealed yet. Who did you learn that from... Bart Sibrel?
I've been (reasonably) commanded by @LunarOrbit to not post any more of these, until we resolve the current ones.   I do have many more... and will get to them as I am permitted to do so.  I believe @LunarOrbit's mandate is reasonable.   But as such, I'm aiming to "close some of these down" so that I can start the new ones.  Some have become circular... and so need to wind down.

In this context, the topics are splintered -- so I won't debate specifics here with you... because that would be too splintered and non-productive.

I invite you to offer your refutations in the other threads, where they are in scope.
The chances thar you will close some(any) down is slim and none.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
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Offline ApolloEnthusiast

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2024, 08:41:25 PM »

With high profit NASA contracts, and all accounting done on paper, it would be immensely EASY to siphon the required money for NASAX under the guise of "something else" (maybe QA work).
That is easy to claim, but I assume you'll be following that up with some data or evidence to support it. Currently, the only evidence shows money that is accounted for in Apollo program expenditures.

Quote
The Landing maneuvers followed by Ascent to Rendezvous was at least 10x harder than all of the rest of their claims.   I believe it was "impossible with the tech at the time" - and have many reasons for believing this.   I plan to cover these in online articles "as we go".  But being a rookie, I'm only 9 weeks into this mess.  My disbelief in Apollo's Landing came from professional experience with 3D free-floating rigid body physics simulations... and the claims of Apollo in 1969 we impossible -- or at least "far more dangerous by a billion times that they'd never risk it -- and then luckily succeed 6x in a row without fatality".
What you believe isn't relevant because you haven't done nearly enough research to make a viable conclusion. All you know right now is that you don't see how it could be done. Until you have thoroughly examined everything, and learned everything you need to understand how it was accomplished, you aren't qualified to conclude anything. And nobody has the burden of proving it to you. It is your job to provide evidence of a fraud, not demand that people to prove to you it wasn't.

Quote
Do you have a citation?  I'm only aware of them seeing "Fuel dumps" - stuff that happened in Earth orbit.
https://www.satobs.org/seesat/Feb-1998/0214.html
https://pauldmaley.com/telescopic-tracking-of-apollo-lunar-missions/  (scroll to the Apollo 13 heading)

If you were prepared to present a case for a faked Apollo program you should already have found this information, by the way.


Quote
MLH theory puts it in Arizona/NM desert regions where military has large swaths of land and no-fly-zones.  Also Canon AF base NM, hangars also has evidence implicating it as the location for filming Apollo 11/12 sets.  Others may have ventured into the desert regions inside their high security regions.
Speculation isn't relevant. If there is evidence, share it. What people "may have" done is irrelevant noise.

Quote
Ditto?  I would LOVE to change sides and be proven wrong - and admit it, confess it, etc...  The world is in dire need of more people willing to "change sides" when presented with enough compelling evidence.
Not ditto. There is literally zero evidence of a hoax. In a bizarre way, I may be the most qualified person here to tell you that. I was once skeptical of the Apollo program because of people like you, presenting their conclusion with what seemed like damning innuendo and photographic and logically presented evidence. But unlike you, instead of accepting their presentation I looked at every piece of evidence I could find, learned a great deal about a number of subjects that exceeded my formal education, and discovered that the hoax claims are unsupportable, and the Apollo claims are backed by a wealth of data, science, and observation.

If there were ever to be evidence that conclusively shows that Apollo was faked, I would be shocked, but I would accept the facts as they stand. But no one, you included, has shown any actual evidence. It is mountains of minutiae you don't understand, packaged to look like some kind of smoking gun. It's a slick package to people who don't have critical thinking skills, but it doesn't hold up to even a tiny amount of scrutiny.


Quote
This is why I'm HERE, instead of hanging out in MLH echo chambers.  I believe I'm fairly good at realizing "where I don't know enough" to say "I don't know enough to have a reliable/legitimate opinion".  For example, Politics -- most people think they "know what's best for the nation" -- I however, conclude - "this is too complex to REALLY know what is best"... and although I have opinions of what "seems best to me" - I always say "I really don't have a clue, as it's too complex/muddy and too many moving parts and concepts."

As for Apollo -- I'm sticking to VERY SIMPLE CONCEPTS... not within the realm of Dunning Kruger.   Newtonian Physics, for example.  Pendulum physics.
Your poor application of physics and the conclusions to which you've leaped without properly vetting them is well within the realm of Dunning-Kruger. If you were intellectually honest you wouldn't be presenting any of this as evidence of a faked Apollo program. You would be presenting it as examples of things you don't understand and that you're looking for assistance to see what you're missing.

Quote
In which of my claims do you think I've journeyed forth into the Dunning-Kruger effect? (where I'm making claims that are beyond my grasp of physics, etc)
Every single one of them.

Quote
PS: Thank you for engaging.  I'd like it if you addressed some of these threads I've started to provide me with a viable/legitimate Apollogist explanation.   Give it your best shot, please.
No. While I respect the people who are attempting to engage with you, I will not allow you to hijack the paradigm. Apollo is a matter of historical record, backed by mountains upon mountains of evidence. If you want to know the truth of it then start digging through those mountains in earnest. If, after you have done all of your homework, you are still unconvinced, then you are free to present your best shot, but it will need to be absolutely monumental in scope and thorough in its presentation of unassailable evidence to be taken at all seriously. I will engage with specifics when you have the courtesy to present an argument that is worthy of being addressed. Nothing you've provided so far gets anywhere near that threshold.

Offline najak

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2024, 09:23:42 PM »
Nothing you've provided so far gets anywhere near that threshold.
If you were initially fooled by the "shadows, stars, etc" arguments -- this is typical.   I find those cringeworthy arguments.. awful.

I'd be interested to simply hear your summation of how you would debunk the few posts I've made, declaring something to be un-refutable.

Like the others, I don't think you have legitimate refutations for my claims.

Question:  Do you believe Epstein was killed or committed suicide?  I mean it's recorded as a suicide, so must be a suicide.   And since we can't prove it was murder -- then we must assume it was suicide just as they told us it was.

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2024, 11:18:50 PM »
Question:  Do you believe Epstein was killed or committed suicide?  I mean it's recorded as a suicide, so must be a suicide.   And since we can't prove it was murder -- then we must assume it was suicide just as they told us it was.

That is way off topic and irrelevant. Stick to the topic, answer the questions directed at you, stop brushing off responses from the other members...or leave.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
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Offline najak

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2024, 12:21:02 AM »
That is way off topic and irrelevant. Stick to the topic, answer the questions directed at you, stop brushing off responses from the other members...or leave.
This is argument by analogy.  I was being told that the way to deal with an elaborate hoax from 50 years ago is to prove that EVERYTHING they've ever done/said is false.  Otherwise, my only smart/reasonable choice is to believe.

Epstein is similar to NASA in that we have NO WAY TO PROVE HE WAS MURDERED...  but also no way to prove it either way.  But the surrounding/circumstantial evidence indicates that we should at least be highly suspicious that this was a murder, not a suicide.

My point is that circumstantial evidence, along with means/motive, for me, is more than enough to have lasting suspicions.

And so with Apollo, what convinces me is a similar line of circumstantial evidence, coupled with a string of Impossibilities.   For starters, I'm focused on the Impossibilities.

Even the Mighty Apollo Cannot Break Simple Physics.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2024, 03:35:23 AM »

With high profit NASA contracts, and all accounting done on paper, it would be immensely EASY to siphon the required money for NASAX under the guise of "something else" (maybe QA work).
That is easy to claim, but I assume you'll be following that up with some data or evidence to support it. Currently, the only evidence shows money that is accounted for in Apollo program expenditures.

Quote
The Landing maneuvers followed by Ascent to Rendezvous was at least 10x harder than all of the rest of their claims.   I believe it was "impossible with the tech at the time" - and have many reasons for believing this.   I plan to cover these in online articles "as we go".  But being a rookie, I'm only 9 weeks into this mess.  My disbelief in Apollo's Landing came from professional experience with 3D free-floating rigid body physics simulations... and the claims of Apollo in 1969 we impossible -- or at least "far more dangerous by a billion times that they'd never risk it -- and then luckily succeed 6x in a row without fatality".
What you believe isn't relevant because you haven't done nearly enough research to make a viable conclusion. All you know right now is that you don't see how it could be done. Until you have thoroughly examined everything, and learned everything you need to understand how it was accomplished, you aren't qualified to conclude anything. And nobody has the burden of proving it to you. It is your job to provide evidence of a fraud, not demand that people to prove to you it wasn't.

Quote
Do you have a citation?  I'm only aware of them seeing "Fuel dumps" - stuff that happened in Earth orbit.
https://www.satobs.org/seesat/Feb-1998/0214.html
https://pauldmaley.com/telescopic-tracking-of-apollo-lunar-missions/  (scroll to the Apollo 13 heading)

If you were prepared to present a case for a faked Apollo program you should already have found this information, by the way.


Quote
MLH theory puts it in Arizona/NM desert regions where military has large swaths of land and no-fly-zones.  Also Canon AF base NM, hangars also has evidence implicating it as the location for filming Apollo 11/12 sets.  Others may have ventured into the desert regions inside their high security regions.
Speculation isn't relevant. If there is evidence, share it. What people "may have" done is irrelevant noise.

Quote
Ditto?  I would LOVE to change sides and be proven wrong - and admit it, confess it, etc...  The world is in dire need of more people willing to "change sides" when presented with enough compelling evidence.
Not ditto. There is literally zero evidence of a hoax. In a bizarre way, I may be the most qualified person here to tell you that. I was once skeptical of the Apollo program because of people like you, presenting their conclusion with what seemed like damning innuendo and photographic and logically presented evidence. But unlike you, instead of accepting their presentation I looked at every piece of evidence I could find, learned a great deal about a number of subjects that exceeded my formal education, and discovered that the hoax claims are unsupportable, and the Apollo claims are backed by a wealth of data, science, and observation.

If there were ever to be evidence that conclusively shows that Apollo was faked, I would be shocked, but I would accept the facts as they stand. But no one, you included, has shown any actual evidence. It is mountains of minutiae you don't understand, packaged to look like some kind of smoking gun. It's a slick package to people who don't have critical thinking skills, but it doesn't hold up to even a tiny amount of scrutiny.


Quote
This is why I'm HERE, instead of hanging out in MLH echo chambers.  I believe I'm fairly good at realizing "where I don't know enough" to say "I don't know enough to have a reliable/legitimate opinion".  For example, Politics -- most people think they "know what's best for the nation" -- I however, conclude - "this is too complex to REALLY know what is best"... and although I have opinions of what "seems best to me" - I always say "I really don't have a clue, as it's too complex/muddy and too many moving parts and concepts."

As for Apollo -- I'm sticking to VERY SIMPLE CONCEPTS... not within the realm of Dunning Kruger.   Newtonian Physics, for example.  Pendulum physics.
Your poor application of physics and the conclusions to which you've leaped without properly vetting them is well within the realm of Dunning-Kruger. If you were intellectually honest you wouldn't be presenting any of this as evidence of a faked Apollo program. You would be presenting it as examples of things you don't understand and that you're looking for assistance to see what you're missing.

Quote
In which of my claims do you think I've journeyed forth into the Dunning-Kruger effect? (where I'm making claims that are beyond my grasp of physics, etc)
Every single one of them.

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PS: Thank you for engaging.  I'd like it if you addressed some of these threads I've started to provide me with a viable/legitimate Apollogist explanation.   Give it your best shot, please.
No. While I respect the people who are attempting to engage with you, I will not allow you to hijack the paradigm. Apollo is a matter of historical record, backed by mountains upon mountains of evidence. If you want to know the truth of it then start digging through those mountains in earnest. If, after you have done all of your homework, you are still unconvinced, then you are free to present your best shot, but it will need to be absolutely monumental in scope and thorough in its presentation of unassailable evidence to be taken at all seriously. I will engage with specifics when you have the courtesy to present an argument that is worthy of being addressed. Nothing you've provided so far gets anywhere near that threshold.

So, no evidence yet? Just 'things don't look right to my totally unqualified eye'. No calculations showing the mass, thrust, and specific impulse of the F1 and J2 engines? No frame-by-frame photogrammetric measurements show show fast you claim the flag moved? I thought not!

If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline najak

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2024, 05:21:00 AM »
What you believe isn't relevant because you haven't done nearly enough research to make a viable conclusion. All you know right now is that you don't see how it could be done. Until you have thoroughly examined everything, and learned everything you need to understand how it was accomplished, you aren't qualified to conclude anything. And nobody has the burden of proving it to you. It is your job to provide evidence of a fraud, not demand that people to prove to you it wasn't.
When I prove "a Claim made by NASA was IMPOSSIBLE" - this is evidence of fraud.   If you catch someone in a Lie, you now have the right to suspect their WHOLE STORY.  Integrity broken.

If a doctor can prove that it's not possible to "cut a woman in half, then just push her back together and she lives" -- this should be evidence enough that the magic was just an illusion, not real.  EVEN if this doctor has NO IDEA how the magician pulled off this illusion.

When NASA says "here's our footage of the big event" - -and we find things within this footage that are IMPOSSIBLE -- this indicates that we caught them in a Lie.  It indicates "Fake Footage".

It doesn't matter "how many people have already accepted the Lie" -- this doesn't make it any more true.

From the GET GO - EVERYONE BELIEVED IT...  and WANTED TO BELIEVE IT.... like a great Religion where there is no condemnation -- only the good stuff -- "Wow, Mankind is wonderful!"... win, win, win.  No motivation to doubt it... and IF YOU DO DOUBT IT -- you'll be laughed at, mocked, outcast, and discredited... as were all of those who tried.    AND STILL -- this continues.   There's only cost in doing MLH work... currently.

So I focus on "Evidence that it was a Hoax" == stuff that Apollo said is real, but demonstrates IMPOSSIBLE feats, or critical mess-ups.

I have a big pile of this to go through... as soon as LunarOrbit gives me the Green Light.

Offline ApolloEnthusiast

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2024, 05:58:23 AM »

I'd be interested to simply hear your summation of how you would debunk the few posts I've made, declaring something to be un-refutable.
Again, this isn't how discussion and debate work. Your declaration that something is "un-refutable" (sic) doesn't make it so. It's no one's job to debunk anything that you present based on your own ignorance. I respect that some people are making an effort to show you your errors, but I'm holding you to a higher standard. It is your burden to debunk Apollo, not mine to debunk your spurious claims. You will need to become much more versed in the material, and much more educated about subject matter that you aren't currently familiar with to make a valid attempt at this. Most likely, if you accept that challenge, over the course of your research you will simply discover what the rest of us already know, and that's a great outcome as well.

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Like the others, I don't think you have legitimate refutations for my claims.
The legitimate refutation is that Apollo is a matter of historical record with mountains upon mountains of data, science, and observation supporting it. Your claims aren't legitimate until they are supported by a similar quantity and caliber of evidence. You have a great deal of work to do; you should get started.


Offline ApolloEnthusiast

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Re: Najak's Posts
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2024, 06:07:51 AM »
When I prove "a Claim made by NASA was IMPOSSIBLE" - this is evidence of fraud.   If you catch someone in a Lie, you now have the right to suspect their WHOLE STORY.  Integrity broken.
There are two primary issues with this line of thought. First, you haven't proven anything to be impossible. You have stated without evidence that certain bits of minutiae don't appear as you would expect them to and hypothesized that these indicate a hoax. The more likely conclusion is that you've made a mistake in your expectations, but you've jumped straight over that to your preferred conclusion, which is terrible science.

Second, it's not enough to find a single small element, or even a series of them that you believe are impossible to prove the hoax. You would then need to disprove all of the evidence that supports Apollo. For example, I haven't seen you address the pendulum video that was shared with you from Apollo 14. It clearly shows physical behavior that must have occurred in lunar gravity. Hours upon hours of things like this also need to "debunked" if a hoax hypothesis is to have any credibility.

You don't know enough to conclude that Apollo was faked, let alone try to construct a persuasive argument to that effect.